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Richard Stallman is coming back to the board of the FSF

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Re: Richard Stallman is coming back to the board of the FSF

#601

Post by f1refly »

tw04 wrote: post #545
franga2000 wrote: post #531

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Does it tho? There's definitely a difference between having sex with a 17yo when you think it's consentual without knowing someone else is forcing her in the background vs. forcing her yourself. Although I personally don't believe it, it is theoretically possible that Minsky didn't know - pointing that out, especially when very little information was available, seems at worst insensitive, but sounds mainly like a ver…

Minsky was an obese, balding old man. To imply that he should have expected or not had even a tiny bit of concern that an attractive young woman on a private island was throwing herself at him is ridiculous. https://cdn.vox-cdn.com/thumbor/lomkCENpPXufPOLUkw6mzlgBljQ=... If I were in my 60s and a 17 year old child was throwing themselves at me for sex, I would question what was going on. The fact it was on a private…

There's no way for a person to know for sure how old another person is. Many girls at 17 have reached sexual maturity and could be 25 from their looks. Calling a 17yo a "child" is not accurate.

there's a reason stores ask for an id when it comes to selling liquor up into women (and men as well!) 30s. I have no idea about legality about prostitution in the carrabean.

In addition to that, many countries have laws that arent as inane as the US when it comes to sex between teenage minors and adults, for most of Europe it's between 14 and sixteen, although rules for a maximum legal partner age may further restrict this.

I'm not saying I think Minsky was unanware, nor do I say I think his actions are right or even non repelling, but I think it's very clear where rms is coming from.

Re: Richard Stallman is coming back to the board of the FSF

#602

Post by blacktriangle »

mustafa_pasi wrote: post #427

Mob justice is not OK just because women do it. If these women have anything substantial they should make formal reports/complaints, not anonymous vogue statements like, "he make me feel uncomfortable". Cannot believe that one even has to say this. Why are women always presumed to be innocent and men always presumed to be guilty? Also, frankly, there is a point at which, certain behaviour might make you feel uncomfor…

Hear hear! We as a civilization have an organization for dealing with these kinds of issues, its called the police. If assault happens, immediately go to the police and report your issue. Watching non-law enforcement agencies get involved in criminal matters has been an utter clusterfuck.

Re: Richard Stallman is coming back to the board of the FSF

#603

Post by tw04 »

adwn wrote: post #592
tw04 wrote: post #581

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>As you may or may not know, some women will voluntarily have sex with men in exchange for money, no coercion or assault required. Which is also illegal. And if you're having sex with a teenager for money, she probably has some pretty major life issues going on. Which as a 60-year-old - you should know better. Period. >If a billionaire flew you to a private island with attractive woman offering to have sex with you,…

> Which is also illegal. Where? Even within the US, prostitution laws vary wildly. > And if you're having sex with a teenager for money, she probably has some pretty major life issues going on. Did Minsky know that they weren't adults? Do you have a source for that? > So... sex trafficking. By definition. Wrong. Not even by definition. If you disagree, show me a valid definition of sex trafficking that includes "flyi…

>Where? Even within the US, prostitution laws vary wildly.

I guess it's fortunate we have that information:

Minsky is from Massachusets: illegal. Guifreye and Epstein Florida: illegal. Little St. James: illegal.

>Did Minsky know that they weren't adults? Do you have a source for that?

You entirely missed the point. A 60 year old man sleeping with someone young enough to be his granddaughter is disgusting. Full stop. The fact that AT BEST he knew she was a prostitute being sex trafficked makes it worse.

>Wrong. Not even by definition. If you disagree, show me a valid definition of sex trafficking that includes "flying to an island to have sex with voluntary prostitutes".

It is LITERALLY the definition:

>the illegal business of recruiting, harboring, transporting, obtaining, or providing a person and especially a minor for the purpose of sex

Re: Richard Stallman is coming back to the board of the FSF

#604

Post by literallycancer »

cmeacham98 wrote: post #497
mustafa_pasi wrote: post #427

Mob justice is not OK just because women do it. If these women have anything substantial they should make formal reports/complaints, not anonymous vogue statements like, "he make me feel uncomfortable". Cannot believe that one even has to say this. Why are women always presumed to be innocent and men always presumed to be guilty? Also, frankly, there is a point at which, certain behaviour might make you feel uncomfor…

I don't see how this is relevant _at all_ to the linked article. You seem to be taking existing arguments that aren't even related to RMS's case and arguing against a strawman of an extreme version of them. No "mob justice" happened here. No women came forward and said RMS "hit on them" or whatever. RMS faced criticism for comments which justified rape and were close to victim blaming, and willingly resigned from his…

Have you read the comments in question?

Re: Richard Stallman is coming back to the board of the FSF

#605

Post by bjourne »

greatartiste wrote: post #395
ethbr0 wrote: post #98

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Honestly asking, what's the difference between someone being neurodivergent and just thoughtless / mean / an ass?

There can be a very fine line. A few years ago I worked with someone who was a bullying objectionable arse especially to younger staff. Eventually it all caught up with him and with HR breathing down his neck he managed to acquire a Asperger's diagnosis which was his get out of jail free card. A colleague of mine called it 'medicalising c*ntishness'.

Asperger's syndrome doesn't exist as a diagnosis anymore because the diagnosis was dropped in DSM-5. When it existed, I can assure you, it was not something you just acquired like a toy in a box of cereals.

Re: Richard Stallman is coming back to the board of the FSF

#606

Post by HideousKojima »

YorickPeterse wrote: post #16
Mediterraneo10 wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Again, maybe it was "hard to interact with him" only if one was unwilling to accept his difference?

This is just the same excuse as the age old "Boys will be boys" excuse. Just because somebody is different doesn't mean they can be a creep and general unpleasant person to work with, without there eventually being repercussions.

"Boys will be boys" was (and still is) a phrase used by most to describe to idiotic stuff boys do like firing roman candles at each other or brothers wrestling with each other and breaking a lamp in the process. How it got twisted to mean that people using it are excusing sexual harassment and assault is beyond me, other than being an obvious attempt by the woke to subvert a common phrase for political purposes.

Re: Richard Stallman is coming back to the board of the FSF

#607

Post by flippinburgers »

hutzlibu wrote: post #568
nyolfen wrote: post #554

Earlier quoted context omitted.

one of those criticisms as a i recall was 'he had a mattress in his office' as if this suggested something untoward rather than him sleeping in his office

Well, but in combination with the sign on his office" Knight for Justice (and hot ladies)" and other remarks he did - you maybe see, why some people might get another idea? And why women feel uncomfortable around such a men? And why it therefore might be a bad idea to have such a person in a leadership position?

Which apparently was written by someone else who then snapped the photo.

Re: Richard Stallman is coming back to the board of the FSF

#608

Post by JohnBooty »

cryptica wrote: post #440
disgruntled101 wrote: post #430

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What you are saying here would get you cancelled 100 times over if you were a public person, sadly.

It goes to show that it's not regular people who create 'cancel culture'. It's the financial elite. They do it as means to push forward a financial agenda. If those who orchestrate the cancellations were who they portray themselves to be, the hypocrisy would be brain-splitting. The only reason their brain lobes are still attached together is because they know that they're being deceptive and it's part of an agenda. I…

    It's not possible for a rational, cohesive mind to
    believe that a person who dedicated his whole life 
    to free software is a bad person just because he once 
    said something without thinking through it.
Multiple strawman arguments in the same sentence.

1. Few if any are claiming RMS is "a bad person" in totality. While I realize the internet is no place for nuance, please understand the question is about whether somebody who's said these things is fit to lead or represent an institution. You can disagree or disagree with that. But please understand that is the question, not "is Richard Stallman a bad person." I certainly don't think he is.

2. "once said something without thinking through it" -- unfortunately this displays a spectacular misunderstanding. These are multiple things said over multiple years on mailing lists, his site, and so forth. Additionally, RMS's communiques are... well, they are not off-the-cuff. I've read reams of his statements over the years. They are the writings of somebody speaking very very deliberately about things he has reasoned through in very deliberate ways according to his beliefs.

Re: Richard Stallman is coming back to the board of the FSF

#609

Post by spicybright »

Mediterraneo10 wrote: post #8

I think it is strange that, on the one hand, the tech world has been advocating for the rights of neurodivergent people – society should accept that people on the autism spectrum are different and that’s OK. But at the same time RMS has been attacked for some statements very probably stemming from his autism that, while they may seem a bit shocking and at odds with the mainstream, were not illegal or intentionally of…

I think in recent years people are being criticized for what they say rather than what they do, as if saying it is the same as doing it. You should be able to hold a negative viewpoint as long as you don't act on it.

Re: Richard Stallman is coming back to the board of the FSF

#610

Post by [deleted] »

louhike wrote: post #433
Aloha wrote: post #330

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's like this, I've spent a lifetime learning a rulebook by trial and error that everyone else just seems to know . It's absolutely maddening when the rules suddenly change for no discernible reason, often with little warning and grave consequences with no second chances for screwing it up. I see people clamoring for a safe spaces and I wonder where I can find such a thing? (To an extent I can find one at sci-fi, an…

I don't think there can be a real safe space. Toxic things for some might not be for others, reassuring things for some might be violent for others. It does not mean we should not try to improve how we behave, but it's important to understand it's impossible to have a generic rulebook we can apply everywhere to be safe with everyone. As an example, some swearwords might really violent to hear for some people, but dis…

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