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The absolute worst scenario happened

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Re: The absolute worst scenario happened

#101

Post by Symbiote »

CaptainZapp wrote: post #95
alistairSH wrote: post #89

Tangent Alert! I have a 3 months resignation period, so I can't even leave... Maybe it's my (US) American experience, but being unable to quit a job strikes me as a terrible policy. This guy(gal?) is really required to submit 3 months notice or face some sort of repercussions (financial, I assume)? Does this 3 month period apply in reverse (employer can't fire employees without a full 3 month warning)? Not that the A…

> Does this 3 month period apply in reverse (employer can't fire employees without a full 3 month warning)? Of course. Different notice periods for employers and employees would be outright illegal in most of Europe.

It's fairly common to have an X-month notice period to resign, and a 2X or X+1-month period to be made redundant.

Re: The absolute worst scenario happened

#102

Post by ratww »

nerbert wrote: post #24
brailsafe wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Was curious about that as well. I've never heard of such an obsurd amount of time, and it seems doubtful it would hold up. "You need to give us 3 months heads up no matter what, but don't worry, we don't have to give you any if you oversleep for a meeting."

This isn’t particularly crazy in Europe. It indeed goes both ways.

In my experience it's also the same in Latin America, but the notice period is normally of 1-2 months rather than 3-6 months.

Re: The absolute worst scenario happened

#103

Post by easton »

4e530344963049 wrote: post #90
paulz_ wrote: post #86

Earlier quoted context omitted.

These types of situations always wind up being the most fun I have at work and leave me feeling most fulfilled. I wish I could do that all day instead of going to standups.

A "firefighting" consultancy might be fun, no? And you would give people a lot of time off!

This is my ideal job, I think. Charge a big rate to be the consultant you call when everything dies from ransomware or OPs problem or whatever, I calmly fix it to normal standards (as possible), take three weeks off after.

Re: The absolute worst scenario happened

#104

Post by blunte »

tw04 wrote: post #88

I actually don't see any issue that isn't simply a matter of money. Everything they list that's an issue seems to revolve around the fact that the employees with domain knowledge for the system have left the company. Reach out to them and hire them on as contractors. If they left under bad terms because the business was a bunch of dicks, expect to pay 10x market rate. If this is truly "fix this or the business is out…

Yes. And after the boat is righted, fire every exec from IT Director upward through CEO.

That last part may not be necessary though, as customers will jump ship and the company will probably sink anyway.

Re: The absolute worst scenario happened

#105

Post by ACS_Solver »

alistairSH wrote: post #89

Tangent Alert! I have a 3 months resignation period, so I can't even leave... Maybe it's my (US) American experience, but being unable to quit a job strikes me as a terrible policy. This guy(gal?) is really required to submit 3 months notice or face some sort of repercussions (financial, I assume)? Does this 3 month period apply in reverse (employer can't fire employees without a full 3 month warning)? Not that the A…

In my EU-centric worldview, the US system of at-will employment, and of two-week notices as the standard courtesy, is crazy.

Three months is the typical notice period for tech workers and other highly-skilled jobs. One month is the legal minimum in Sweden, and certainly several other countries. Of course it goes both ways, in fact it's even more difficult for the employer to get rid of an employee. An employee doesn't need a reason to resign, an employer needs a valid reason to fire an employee, in addition to observing the notice period.

To complete the picture, it's necessary to say that probation periods exist. Employees may be initially hired on probation (typical for fresh graduates), which has a shorter notice period, and either side may unilaterally decide not to continue past probation. That is, an employer unhappy with a probation employee doesn't need additional legal grounds to say "we're not proceeding with full employment after the probation period is over".

Re: The absolute worst scenario happened

#106

Post by mkl »

obedm wrote: post #96
alistairSH wrote: post #89

Tangent Alert! I have a 3 months resignation period, so I can't even leave... Maybe it's my (US) American experience, but being unable to quit a job strikes me as a terrible policy. This guy(gal?) is really required to submit 3 months notice or face some sort of repercussions (financial, I assume)? Does this 3 month period apply in reverse (employer can't fire employees without a full 3 month warning)? Not that the A…

European here. Having 3 months written in your contract (and in many countries by law, like France) is pretty common. You can still quit if both parties agree. I've done it before. The clause is there to avoid this type of scenario where a key employee just says fuck it and leave. It works both ways. So a company can say fuck it and fire you just because they want to. It's a fantastic system. It can be exploited, but…

> So a company can say fuck it and fire you

"Can't", right? Otherwise it sounds like American at-will employment.

Re: The absolute worst scenario happened

#108

Post by viraptor »

tw04 wrote: post #88

I actually don't see any issue that isn't simply a matter of money. Everything they list that's an issue seems to revolve around the fact that the employees with domain knowledge for the system have left the company. Reach out to them and hire them on as contractors. If they left under bad terms because the business was a bunch of dicks, expect to pay 10x market rate. If this is truly "fix this or the business is out…

There's the possibility that those employees are happily retired and don't care. Or they're just not available in many ways.

I know of a hospital which is still refusing to migrate off of a system which is not supported for a decade. Pay more money? 3 people worked on it: Adam had a stroke, Bob retired with enough money, Charlie left the country.

Re: The absolute worst scenario happened

#109

Post by numbernine »

alistairSH wrote: post #89

Tangent Alert! I have a 3 months resignation period, so I can't even leave... Maybe it's my (US) American experience, but being unable to quit a job strikes me as a terrible policy. This guy(gal?) is really required to submit 3 months notice or face some sort of repercussions (financial, I assume)? Does this 3 month period apply in reverse (employer can't fire employees without a full 3 month warning)? Not that the A…

In my country, we have a 3 month notice aswell and yes it does also apply in reverse. You can negociate to lower the period but most of the time the company will decline your request. For high-demand jobs it is a nightmare for everyone.

Re: The absolute worst scenario happened

#110

Post by yetihehe »

puszczyk wrote: post #83
turbinerneiter wrote: post #31

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It goes both ways, the employer has to give the employee 3 months notice as well. But this is for when both of them can't find a mutual solution. You can always agree to terminate the contract earlier, if both parties agree. At least that is how it works in Germany.

Same in Poland — after 2y on a permanent job contract the leave is 3 months. It goes both ways. I can be shorter if both parties agree.

Yes, if both parties agree, you can leave at once, otherwise employer can sue you for damages or lost profits (if damages are small, they don't bother) and you don't have unemployment benefits.
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