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Richard Stallman is coming back to the board of the FSF

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Re: Richard Stallman is coming back to the board of the FSF

#521

Post by inglor_cz »

dataduck wrote: post #505
inglor_cz wrote: post #353

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If they keep eating one another so publicly and randomly, they won't achieve the necessary internal stability. Successful authoritarian movements have a clear set of rules that make you safe as a member, and only turn to internal purges once they destroyed any external opposition.

Are you saying that they haven't destroyed all (effective) external opposition?

Locally (universities), maybe.

As far as the entire USA or perhaps the entire Western world goes, no.

Re: Richard Stallman is coming back to the board of the FSF

#522

Post by secondcoming »

Mediterraneo10 wrote: post #8

I think it is strange that, on the one hand, the tech world has been advocating for the rights of neurodivergent people – society should accept that people on the autism spectrum are different and that’s OK. But at the same time RMS has been attacked for some statements very probably stemming from his autism that, while they may seem a bit shocking and at odds with the mainstream, were not illegal or intentionally of…

It also an issue I have with Codes of Conduct. There was a person who posted to the LKML about his autism and concerns over unintentionally violating the CoC, and whether he should continue to contribute or not. I don't recall anyone replying to him and his concerns either.

Computing can possibly be considered a 'safe space' for people like the above but that has now been dismantled to suit other people. Who owns the safe spaces?

I'm not condoning people being assholes, BTW.

Re: Richard Stallman is coming back to the board of the FSF

#523

Post by d0100 »

yread wrote: post #453
mustafa_pasi wrote: post #427

Mob justice is not OK just because women do it. If these women have anything substantial they should make formal reports/complaints, not anonymous vogue statements like, "he make me feel uncomfortable". Cannot believe that one even has to say this. Why are women always presumed to be innocent and men always presumed to be guilty? Also, frankly, there is a point at which, certain behaviour might make you feel uncomfor…

Are you saying that jerking off in front of people is OK or borderline? Stallman wasn't removed for "he once hit on me and I had to reject him". He wasn't criminalized at all, he resigned himself after saying stupid stuff.

> Are you saying that

Does anything intellectually honest ever come after this start of phrase?

Re: Richard Stallman is coming back to the board of the FSF

#524

Post by junke »

gypsyharlot wrote: post #348
Mediterraneo10 wrote: post #8

I think it is strange that, on the one hand, the tech world has been advocating for the rights of neurodivergent people – society should accept that people on the autism spectrum are different and that’s OK. But at the same time RMS has been attacked for some statements very probably stemming from his autism that, while they may seem a bit shocking and at odds with the mainstream, were not illegal or intentionally of…

Exactly. Unfortunately, there are activists within the GNU movement, like Andy Wingo, that have done everything they can to have RMS removed from everything he has built.

People part of the GNU movement say "we owe a debt of gratitude to Richard Stallman for his decades of important work in the free software movement". Andy Wingo said "he created GNU, speaking it into existence via prophetic narrative and via code; yes, he inspired many people, myself included, to make the vision of a GNU system into a reality; and yes, he should be recognized for these things."

They also say: "Yet, we must also acknowledge that Stallman’s behavior over the years has undermined a core value of the GNU project: the empowerment of all computer users."

Andy also wrote: "I can hear you saying it. RMS started GNU so RMS decides what it is and what it can be. GNU has long outgrown any individual contributor. I don't think RMS has the legitimacy to tell this group of largely volunteers what we should build or how we should organize ourselves. Or rather, he can say what he thinks, but he has no dominion over GNU; he does not have majority sweat equity in the project. But I don't accept that. GNU is about practical software freedom, not about RMS. [...] I simply state that I, personally, do not serve RMS."

Your comment is the one attributing to others malicious intent:

"Unfortunately, there are activists within the GNU movement, like Andy Wingo, that have done everything they can to have RMS removed from everything he has built."

I don't know why, maybe when you get older (as I do), you start being afraid of being put out of work by younger people (I don't), or maybe you are yourself neurodivergent and weird with people (I do). It is logical, then, to feel empathy for rms. But, factually, rms is not being confronted for his "quircks" or his age.

The way public figures behave, publicly and in their relationship with others as part of their work, has an impact on the culture it encourages. The fact that people express discomfort, fear, etc. when they want to contribute to free software is worrying. I feel bad for them. I see nothing unfortunate here in having people confront someone in power for his behaviour.

I mean, it is 2021, do I need to quote the Peter Parker principle?

---

https://wingolog.org/archives/2019/10/08/thoughts-on-rms-and...

https://guix.gnu.org/blog/2019/joint-statement-on-the-gnu-pr...

https://www.forbes.com/sites/heidilynnekurter/2019/12/23/4-s...

Re: Richard Stallman is coming back to the board of the FSF

#525

Post by foobar33333 »

higerordermap wrote: post #294
nicklecompte wrote: post #76

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I will say his “opinions” on child rape and children with disabilities are despicable and immoral, and not just a matter of him being eccentric. While he might sincerely believe such things that is hardly an endorsement of his character. But it’s not just his horrible opinions: for decades he constantly harassed women at MIT (students and faculty), especially teenagers. The details are really quite gross: https://sel…

> He literally used to have a mattress on the floor of his office. He kept the door to his office open, to proudly showcase that mattress and all the implications that went with it. As someone who is not native speaker, what does "implications" mean exactly here? Little confused.

I'm guessing they are suggesting that RMS having a mattress in his office is implying (meaning not directly saying but giving someone the idea of) that he wants people to sleep with him on that mattress or implying that it has happened already.

Re: Richard Stallman is coming back to the board of the FSF

#526

Post by ethbr0 »

enriquto wrote: post #485
ejolto wrote: post #447

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Also Scandinavian and I agree with you. Also Americans lying about these things are often seen as being fake and thus rude.

As a southern European, I concur that US-ian fake politeness is quite disturbing.

As a southern American, I'd chalk a lot of it up to our multiculturalism. There are different parts within the US, where you'd get different answers to that question, almost always!

But I'd say suggestion and (to use the southern term) social grace is one of the most nuanced and culture-heavy forms of communication. In that it assumes a lot of shared culture between you and the other party.

As least down here, with > stranger, And I imagine most of those cues completely disappear cross-culturally.

Re: Richard Stallman is coming back to the board of the FSF

#527

Post by etiam »

tptacek wrote: post #207
gruez wrote: post #197

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>and that [Marvin Minsky's] protection was itself part of the problem So if your friend was accused of heinous crime, the right thing to do is to distance yourself as far as possible?

You can stand by a friend without minimizing the harm they cause.

When the actual harm was zero? And perhaps more importantly when the accusations go well beyond anything evidence warrants?

Re: Richard Stallman is coming back to the board of the FSF

#528

Post by jasonvorhe »

Wow, people actually think that being somewhat neuro-diverse is reason enough or even an excuse for RMS behavior?

I haven't been a fan of the FSF in years (especially after meeting a few of their employees in Germany) but bringing RMS back is the definitive nail in the coffin of that organisation. I wouldn't be surprised if the few reasonable people still working for FSF leave and the org shuts down in a few years because they can't attract talent anymore and their donations dry up.

Re: Richard Stallman is coming back to the board of the FSF

#529

Post by hutzlibu »

tptacek wrote: post #207
gruez wrote: post #197

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>and that [Marvin Minsky's] protection was itself part of the problem So if your friend was accused of heinous crime, the right thing to do is to distance yourself as far as possible?

You can stand by a friend without minimizing the harm they cause.

You mean marginalising?

Because minimizing harm is nothing bad as far as I am concerned.

Re: Richard Stallman is coming back to the board of the FSF

#530

Post by noobermin »

nostrademons wrote: post #41
Mediterraneo10 wrote: post #8

I think it is strange that, on the one hand, the tech world has been advocating for the rights of neurodivergent people – society should accept that people on the autism spectrum are different and that’s OK. But at the same time RMS has been attacked for some statements very probably stemming from his autism that, while they may seem a bit shocking and at odds with the mainstream, were not illegal or intentionally of…

Ribbonfarm called this a couple years ago: https://www.ribbonfarm.com/2018/03/06/a-quick-battle-field-g... Specifically battlefront #8. He calls it consequential because the the neurodivergent/PC conflict highlights an inherent paradox in the PC worldview. Most applications of political correctness focus (at least on the surface) on defending a marginalized group against the verbal attacks of a privileged one. When a…

Some of this is good but I don't understand what China on the map has to do with anything. It also isn't mentioned in the article at all...

I'm pretty sure China cares little about American political correctness wars.

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