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Richard Stallman is coming back to the board of the FSF

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421–430 of 943 posts

Re: Richard Stallman is coming back to the board of the FSF

#421
post #137

I think it is strange that, on the one hand, the tech world has been advocating for the rights of neurodivergent people – society should accept that people on the autism spectrum are different and that’s OK. But at the same time RMS has been attacked for some statements very probably stemming from his autism that, while they may seem a bit shocking and at odds with the mainstream, were not illegal or intentionally of…

Neurodiversity – up to some point anyway, some people take it a tad too far – is great, but that also means that different people are, well, different, and are good at different things. Stallman is good at many different things and he doesn't seem like e bad bloke overall. But he is not good at being a leader. At all. It's just not where his aptitudes lie. As a leader he is not only ineffective, but even counter-prod…

> But he is not good at being a leader

Don't 35 years leading the FSF say otherwise?

Judging from the reactions in the FSF community to his coming back, people were missing him.

Re: Richard Stallman is coming back to the board of the FSF

#422

I think it is strange that, on the one hand, the tech world has been advocating for the rights of neurodivergent people – society should accept that people on the autism spectrum are different and that’s OK. But at the same time RMS has been attacked for some statements very probably stemming from his autism that, while they may seem a bit shocking and at odds with the mainstream, were not illegal or intentionally of…

> intentionally offensive I think this is spot on, because people stopped caring about someone's intention before judging them. Maybe people got so good at lying about their intention, that we don't believe them when they say "it wasn't my intention" when someone says something bad. The end result is the same, it doesn't matter what your intention was, you say something bad, you deserve bad back.

> you say something bad, you deserve bad back

But he didn't, he was falsely accused.

So maybe the people that accused him deserve something bad back too.

Re: Richard Stallman is coming back to the board of the FSF

#423
post #242
post #75

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So you want no one autistic to ever be in a position of leadership?

Not every autistic person is an asshole

but every person that falsely accuse an autistic of something he hasn't done, is.

Re: Richard Stallman is coming back to the board of the FSF

#424
post #253

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I would recommend looking into the less pleasant facts about others you consider philosophically brilliant, especially those further removed from us in time, before you denounce Richard Stallman as irredeemable to history.

"I would recommend looking into the less pleasant facts about others you consider philosophically brilliant, especially those further removed from us in time" I do. How the hell do you think I figured it out for RMS? That same critical filtering can happen not just across time, but across various axes of context. I didn't say that he's "irredeemable" but that the constant hagiographic/endless forgiveness for his chro…

> the constant hagiographic/endless forgiveness for his chronic boorishness by his acolytes is annoying and serves no benefit.

Most relevant is that it deprives him of useful feedback neurodivergent people can actually use to better communicate with neurotypical colleagues.

Re: Richard Stallman is coming back to the board of the FSF

#425
post #392

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you’re honestly asking, it’s a rude question as stated. But if you’re sincerely admitting you don’t understand the difference, the difference is this: Many people (including myself) have difficulty with certain social cues and expectations. Many of us can be offputting or come off as overly direct or disrespectful. Where we diverge is when and how we address that fact. Do we (only) lash out and expect the world to…

To be blunt, I think a lot of people here misuse autism. The autistic person I had to deal with a lot of times had "difficulty" with social cues in that he was an adult that had no idea of not standing by others when they were working, would endlessly repeat things, was more or less impossible to hold a conversation with, etc. We more or less had to babysit him as impromptu caretakers. It isn't "oh, I don't know how…

> Like generally there's a lot of disability chic or identity these days; but moderate autism makes it incredibly hard to act in daily life in the same way moderate OCD does.

Are you familiar with the concept of broad autism phenotype (BAP)? A person who has more autistic traits than the average person, but not enough traits (or are not sufficiently impaired by those traits) for an ASD diagnosis, has BAP. Someone who thinks they–or someone else–has ASD in the absence of a formal diagnosis–if they are wrong about the person having ASD, they probably are actually picking up on the person's BAP traits.

And how does the experience of BAP and ASD differ? Well, they are just different positions on a continuum–people with BAP have similar experiences to people with ASD, albeit with less intensity and/or less impairment. And the line between them is unclear and subjective, different clinicians draw it in different places–whether you end up with the diagnosis can depend on factors that have nothing to do with you personally, such as the diagnostic practices and clinical culture of the clinicians you end up seeing. (And the line is moving – a lot of people diagnosed with ASD today would not have received that diagnosis if they'd presented with the same symptoms 20 or 30 years ago.)

Stressful environments often exacerbate people's autistic traits and interfere with their own strategies for managing them. A series of stressful life events can lead a person to a situation in which they end up being diagnosed, whereas if their life had taken a more leisurely turn they might never have been diagnosed – even if their innate traits are exactly the same in the two scenarios. One of the key criteria for diagnosing ASD (criterion D) is clinically significant dysfunction, and dysfunction is highly environmentally determined (unsupportive environments result in far more dysfunction than supportive ones given the same underlying condition)

> If it's significant enough, it's not just someone being brisk or unempathetic in the same way OCD doesn't mean being a neat freak.

BAP is subclinical ASD. Subclinical OCD is also a subject of study, although unlike BAP it doesn't have a distinctive name. A lot of "neat freak" people may actually have subclinical OCD. And subclinical OCD and clinical OCD are on a continuum with each other, with a subjective and varying dividing line between them, just as subclinical and clinical ASD are.

https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=26537443

https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=26451328

https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=26312895

Re: Richard Stallman is coming back to the board of the FSF

#426
Ok, he is more than a Saint of the Church of Emacs. See the signs: He delivered the Holy GNU OS, He was cancelled, and now He came back from being cancelled. Witness that He is the true messenger of GNU and the Messiah of the Free Software movement.

Re: Richard Stallman is coming back to the board of the FSF

#427
Mob justice is not OK just because women do it. If these women have anything substantial they should make formal reports/complaints, not anonymous vogue statements like, "he make me feel uncomfortable". Cannot believe that one even has to say this. Why are women always presumed to be innocent and men always presumed to be guilty?

Also, frankly, there is a point at which, certain behaviour might make you feel uncomfortable, but that does not mean it is grounds for firing that person. At some point you have to just fend for yourself and tell the person to fuck off. We cannot just fire anyone who has some harmless quirk that you don't appreciate. I myself have to work with loads of people with nasty behaviours, but I don't presume to demand they all get fired just because of that.

I mean, this has gotten ridiculous. We went from "he grabbed me by the pussy" and "he jerked off in front of me" to .... "he once hit on me and I had to reject him". The latter is perfectly normal behavior unless you propose we criminalize being a man.

Re: Richard Stallman is coming back to the board of the FSF

#428

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It could be a neurotypical Dutch being themselves. Societal norms vary from culture to culture, even within what we call the western world.

also a Dane I think, frankly it seemed polite.

I'm Swiss (from a French-speaking canton), that seems polite to me too.

Re: Richard Stallman is coming back to the board of the FSF

#429

I wish FSF also started caring about the developers. Free software was and is a great idea, but unintended consequence is that it also facilitates exploitation of software developers by big corporations who from the perspective of FSF are just users as regular people. This means they make billions off of a software who someone built in their rented flat, living a modest life, sometimes struggling with bills, meanwhil…

Different political conceptual views, I guess? You may be looking to some kind of workers cooperative, where the workers are the developers. A cooperative's primary benefit is to the members of the organisation. A coop can have viewpoints outside of course.

The FSF views all global people are the "worker" - so rights and freedoms are for people outside the organisation.

So you'd like a workers coop but with a (variable) lesser set of rights that the FSF currently has to everyone else?

I could imagine a closed license that #1 only members of the coop can develop software with that license and #2 only the coop can sell the software. You could optionally allow non members to develop with copy left-like term but not sell their work or the software.

How would you do it?

Re: Richard Stallman is coming back to the board of the FSF

#430

Mob justice is not OK just because women do it. If these women have anything substantial they should make formal reports/complaints, not anonymous vogue statements like, "he make me feel uncomfortable". Cannot believe that one even has to say this. Why are women always presumed to be innocent and men always presumed to be guilty? Also, frankly, there is a point at which, certain behaviour might make you feel uncomfor…

What you are saying here would get you cancelled 100 times over if you were a public person, sadly.
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