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Japanese man leaves horrible job, gets horrible letter from the company

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Re: Japanese man leaves horrible job, gets horrible letter from the company

#51

Post by _Wintermute »

yawaworht1978 wrote: post #33

Do not worry , some European companies do this via backstabbing and hiding behind "procedures" and hr behaves like a banana republic court, or wannabe junta. They try to make sure as little as possible is spilled to the public. If they do and if you can, have them fire you and then send the corresponding tribunal after them. Also make sure to post a candid review on glassdoor. Perhaps google and LinkedIn. Do not forg…

I faced this as a foreigner working as a post-doc at a French company where it turns out French labor laws are a double-edged sword. I was offered a much better job towards the end of my contract and therefore handed my resignation in. I was then summoned to a meeting by HR and told if I wanted to leave before the end of my set-term contract (CDD) I was required to pay a considerable amount of money.

Thankfully my own manager (whom I was leaving) had my back and pointed out that since I was leaving for a permanent role (CDI) which my current employer had not yet offered to me in writing (though informally expected me to carry on), I could get around this.

I honestly don't know what they were expecting. How can you carry on working for a company against your will with the threat of being sued if you tried to leave, what sort of a working environment is that?

Re: Japanese man leaves horrible job, gets horrible letter from the company

#52

Post by yawaworht1978 »

_Wintermute wrote: post #51
yawaworht1978 wrote: post #33

Do not worry , some European companies do this via backstabbing and hiding behind "procedures" and hr behaves like a banana republic court, or wannabe junta. They try to make sure as little as possible is spilled to the public. If they do and if you can, have them fire you and then send the corresponding tribunal after them. Also make sure to post a candid review on glassdoor. Perhaps google and LinkedIn. Do not forg…

I faced this as a foreigner working as a post-doc at a French company where it turns out French labor laws are a double-edged sword. I was offered a much better job towards the end of my contract and therefore handed my resignation in. I was then summoned to a meeting by HR and told if I wanted to leave before the end of my set-term contract (CDD) I was required to pay a considerable amount of money. Thankfully my ow…

Sorry to hear about that. It is very important imo to always remember that it is just a job. Even if you are career driven, self starter, workaholic, try to soak up as much knowledge and do not do crazy overtime except maybe a bit in a startup if you are one of the first 10 employees and believe in the product.

No company will say thanks for wrecking your personal life and ending up burned out.

It is still perfectly possible to climb the career ladder without overtime and doing extra tasks for no extra pay etc.

Time is a persons most valuable asset and the companies know that. Do not waste it on repetitive monkey tasks which are the result of multiple product development failures covered up by incompetent managers. There is not much to learn in these places. These are for people with sub average ambitions, fair enough.

Your point with the hr would be funny if it weren't so sad and real. Anyone who was ever subject to such will immediately understand why concentration camps have happened. Never trust HR beyond rota planning and perhaps payroll. They are the ones posting these ridiculous developer job adverts, we have all seen them.

Re: Japanese man leaves horrible job, gets horrible letter from the company

#53

Post by granshaw »

tarboreus wrote: post #11
phendrenad2 wrote: post #5

Why do people work for these companies? Is there no other option? Is the pay great? Is it not clear that they're a bad company before getting hired?

From my understanding, working for a major company is really bound up in your social standing in Japanese society. Think of it like health insurance in the US, except everyone in the entire society will kind of think you're a bum if you don't work for one of these companies, and it will color things like your interactions with police and your ability to rent an apartment. And, I think, it's more common these days not…

If it’s getting more common why isn’t societal attitudes and expectations adjusting with the times then? Surely the Japanese are aware of their backward work culture and inefficiency in the eyes of the rest of the world?

Re: Japanese man leaves horrible job, gets horrible letter from the company

#55

Post by Twaway45609 »

_Wintermute wrote: post #51
yawaworht1978 wrote: post #33

Do not worry , some European companies do this via backstabbing and hiding behind "procedures" and hr behaves like a banana republic court, or wannabe junta. They try to make sure as little as possible is spilled to the public. If they do and if you can, have them fire you and then send the corresponding tribunal after them. Also make sure to post a candid review on glassdoor. Perhaps google and LinkedIn. Do not forg…

I faced this as a foreigner working as a post-doc at a French company where it turns out French labor laws are a double-edged sword. I was offered a much better job towards the end of my contract and therefore handed my resignation in. I was then summoned to a meeting by HR and told if I wanted to leave before the end of my set-term contract (CDD) I was required to pay a considerable amount of money. Thankfully my ow…

Well, if you sign a fixed CDD contract, then you are also expected to stay till the end. By law, both sides cant cancel it, except with common agreement.

If you dont expect to stay till the end, then dont sign, or ask for a shorter cdd which can also be renewed at most one more time depening on the company, or concerted into a cdi

Re: Japanese man leaves horrible job, gets horrible letter from the company

#56

Post by _Wintermute »

Twaway45609 wrote: post #55
_Wintermute wrote: post #51

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I faced this as a foreigner working as a post-doc at a French company where it turns out French labor laws are a double-edged sword. I was offered a much better job towards the end of my contract and therefore handed my resignation in. I was then summoned to a meeting by HR and told if I wanted to leave before the end of my set-term contract (CDD) I was required to pay a considerable amount of money. Thankfully my ow…

Well, if you sign a fixed CDD contract, then you are also expected to stay till the end. By law, both sides cant cancel it, except with common agreement. If you dont expect to stay till the end, then dont sign, or ask for a shorter cdd which can also be renewed at most one more time depening on the company, or concerted into a cdi

It's this kind of rigid adherence to bureaucracy which has no bearing on reality that drove me mad. They have absolutely zero leverage here and it's in everybody's interest to let an employee leave at that point.

Ok so I don't officially leave, but I just stop turning up for work. What are they going to do, fire me? Ça marche, adieu...

Re: Japanese man leaves horrible job, gets horrible letter from the company

#57

Post by fomine3 »

wodenokoto wrote: post #15
Mizza wrote: post #6

The article mentions _two_ instance of people hiring somebody to quit a job on their own behalf - what? I know there are some Japanophiles here on HN - can somebody explain what that's all about?

I live in Europe. My union offers to negotiate employment contract termination on my behalf as part of their services to members.

Now resignation negotiation as a service is getting popular in Japan.

Re: Japanese man leaves horrible job, gets horrible letter from the company

#58

Post by fomine3 »

xvector wrote: post #48
adrian_mrd wrote: post #44

Adjacent: I found this part of the article particularly interesting: “People-rental services are fairly common in Japan, where you can rent anyone from a middle-aged man to give you life advice, to someone to become friends with your spouse to see if they’re cheating on you.”

I’m not sure if it’s actually common or just over represented by the media. Anyone care to comment?

I never think it's common but maybe possibly true on some community in Tokyo

Re: Japanese man leaves horrible job, gets horrible letter from the company

#59

Post by bluelu »

_Wintermute wrote: post #56
Twaway45609 wrote: post #55

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Well, if you sign a fixed CDD contract, then you are also expected to stay till the end. By law, both sides cant cancel it, except with common agreement. If you dont expect to stay till the end, then dont sign, or ask for a shorter cdd which can also be renewed at most one more time depening on the company, or concerted into a cdi

It's this kind of rigid adherence to bureaucracy which has no bearing on reality that drove me mad. They have absolutely zero leverage here and it's in everybody's interest to let an employee leave at that point. Ok so I don't officially leave, but I just stop turning up for work. What are they going to do, fire me? Ça marche, adieu...

This would be called "abandon du poste".

In the worst case, you would risk getting a "faute grave" added into your police register ("casier judiciaire"). Your employer could also sue you for damages.

Best is always to find an agreement with your employer.

Re: Japanese man leaves horrible job, gets horrible letter from the company

#60

Post by prawn »

_Wintermute wrote: post #51
yawaworht1978 wrote: post #33

Do not worry , some European companies do this via backstabbing and hiding behind "procedures" and hr behaves like a banana republic court, or wannabe junta. They try to make sure as little as possible is spilled to the public. If they do and if you can, have them fire you and then send the corresponding tribunal after them. Also make sure to post a candid review on glassdoor. Perhaps google and LinkedIn. Do not forg…

I faced this as a foreigner working as a post-doc at a French company where it turns out French labor laws are a double-edged sword. I was offered a much better job towards the end of my contract and therefore handed my resignation in. I was then summoned to a meeting by HR and told if I wanted to leave before the end of my set-term contract (CDD) I was required to pay a considerable amount of money. Thankfully my ow…

In the sporting world, the disgruntled employee just implies that they aren't or won't play to their ability, and the team quickly looks to move them on. Of course, the club is generally getting something back in the form of a trade however.
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