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Richard Stallman is coming back to the board of the FSF

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Re: Richard Stallman is coming back to the board of the FSF

#81

Post by konjin »

Traster wrote: post #28
prepend wrote: post #4

Sometimes I worry that we truly are devolving and things are getting worse. I think “eventually people will wise up and focus on what’s important” but then even crazier stuff keeps happening. This is a positive sign that maybe we can figure out how to eventually get it right and it won’t just be a circular firing squad getting smaller and smaller over time.

I just want to chime in to say, either defend Stallman or don’t. Don’t do this silly moral panic “I worry about society” thing. Address the issues, don’t make gross generalisations.

When I can call you sexist, racist, homophobic, transphobic, sexist and a nazi before breakfast addressing the issues misses the point of why the issues are being raised.

Pretending that these people have any morals past gathering power is as stupid as pretending that the mob burning down your restaurant is your fault for not installing enough sprinklers to put out napalm.

Re: Richard Stallman is coming back to the board of the FSF

#82

Post by konjin »

bigtones wrote: post #22
hYKdTfpa wrote: post #3

The attacks on him were dubious at best.

Are they.... here is a direct quote from him on a pro-pedophilia political party in 2006 that many that people took offence with: “I am sceptical of the claim that voluntarily pedophilia harms children. The arguments that it causes harm seem to be based on cases which aren’t voluntary, which are then stretched by parents who are horrified by the idea that their little baby is maturing.” https://thenextweb.com/dd/2019…

Odd that none of the teens Epstein slept with would be illegal to sleep with in Germany. Pedophilia is starting to mean 'sex I find icky' in the US.

Re: Richard Stallman is coming back to the board of the FSF

#83

Post by henriquez »

ruined wrote: post #37
henriquez wrote: post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Your statement is analogous to saying “all autistic people are the same” which is itself very offensive.

show me where i said that. autistic people are not uniquely malevolent, and it is not offensive to suggest autistic people are not uniquely malevolent. the premise at the root of the thread was that autistic people can't tell bad ideas from good ideas, and should thus go forever uncriticized. both in that it's wrong, and in that it casts autistic people as corruptible and dangerous, when we know very well most "norma…

> advocating that it should be acceptable for autistic people to cause harm is not helpful.

It should be acceptable to empathize and forgive. People who exhibit “atypical” personality traits need this the most of all. Judging all people through the lens of a neurotypical morality construct is inherently harmful.

Re: Richard Stallman is coming back to the board of the FSF

#84

Post by colechristensen »

konjin wrote: post #75
colechristensen wrote: post #27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I do not. Being unusual does not free you from the burdens of being a decent person, especially while in a public leadership position, especially when your violations are a repeated trend over a very long period. With the right diagnostic criteria just about everybody who is an asshole could be diagnosed with some mental disorder or another and that is more or less the present state of psychology, that kind of reason…

So you want no one autistic to ever be in a position of leadership?

Indeed autism poses a challenge for a person in a leadership position. One facet of autism is difficulty in certain social interactions and that difficulty can cause real harm to people. You shouldn't prejudge a person because of a diagnosis, nor should you pre-acquit.

You can embrace acceptance that people are different and realize that differences make some people better and worse for certain things.

Re: Richard Stallman is coming back to the board of the FSF

#85

Post by jolux »

henriquez wrote: post #43
asdfasgasdgasdg wrote: post #29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

To me, the only thing implied by the above comment is that "all autistic people are capable of being decent to other people." That doesn't seem offensive, although it may be incorrect (I simply do not know).

Clearly not all neurotypical people are capable of being decent to others, so how would it make sense that all autistic people are? No, to assume that forgiveness or empathy to one autistic individual denigrates an entire spectrum of autistic individuals is the same as assuming that from the actions of one we can confer some sort of collective responsibility. This assumption is the root of all prejudice.

>Clearly not all neurotypical people are capable of being decent to others, so how would it make sense that all autistic people are?

If you believe that some autistic people can be decent, though, it's no longer an excuse for Stallman that he's autistic. I'm on the spectrum myself, it's not a free pass for being offensive.

Re: Richard Stallman is coming back to the board of the FSF

#86

Post by mjg59 »

hntrader wrote: post #77
toiletfuneral wrote: post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yeah thats me, I don't care about 'intent' as much as 'outcome' All the well meaning in the world doesn't mean shit if you're creating hostility or demeaning others (that is not commentary on RMS, just in general)

"I don't care about 'intent' as much as 'outcome'" Accidentaly killing someone with your car is very different to negligent driving which causes death which is also very different to intentionally killing someone with your car. Clearly intent and context matters a lot.

These are all different things, but the end result is that someone has been hit with a car. If your goal is to avoid people being hit with cars and someone keeps accidentally hitting people with their car, then you probably want to considering whether that person should be allowed to drive.

Re: Richard Stallman is coming back to the board of the FSF

#87

Post by bigtones »

Mediterraneo10 wrote: post #8

I think it is strange that, on the one hand, the tech world has been advocating for the rights of neurodivergent people – society should accept that people on the autism spectrum are different and that’s OK. But at the same time RMS has been attacked for some statements very probably stemming from his autism that, while they may seem a bit shocking and at odds with the mainstream, were not illegal or intentionally of…

Selam Jie Gano, a female at MIT when he worked there wrote:

“There is no single person that is so deserving of praise their comments deprecating others should be allowed to slide. Particularly when those comments are excuses about rape, assault, and child sex trafficking.”

Re: Richard Stallman is coming back to the board of the FSF

#88

Post by paulcole »

henriquez wrote: post #43
asdfasgasdgasdg wrote: post #29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

To me, the only thing implied by the above comment is that "all autistic people are capable of being decent to other people." That doesn't seem offensive, although it may be incorrect (I simply do not know).

Clearly not all neurotypical people are capable of being decent to others, so how would it make sense that all autistic people are? No, to assume that forgiveness or empathy to one autistic individual denigrates an entire spectrum of autistic individuals is the same as assuming that from the actions of one we can confer some sort of collective responsibility. This assumption is the root of all prejudice.

> Clearly not all neurotypical people are capable of being decent to others

This is not clear to me. Many people are assholes but that’s by choice, not because they’re incapable of not being assholes.

Re: Richard Stallman is coming back to the board of the FSF

#89

Post by tpush »

sebmellen wrote: post #36
colechristensen wrote: post #27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I do not. Being unusual does not free you from the burdens of being a decent person, especially while in a public leadership position, especially when your violations are a repeated trend over a very long period. With the right diagnostic criteria just about everybody who is an asshole could be diagnosed with some mental disorder or another and that is more or less the present state of psychology, that kind of reason…

That’s such a ridiculous viewpoint. Someone should be disqualified from being a “public figure” for making bad off-the-cuff remarks? There goes half of Congress, half of Hollywood, many historic figures, and a fair share of executives. How can someone be “disqualified” from being a “public figure” anyway!???!

> There goes half of Congress, half of Hollywood, many historic figures, and a fair share of executives.

I mean, yeah.

Re: Richard Stallman is coming back to the board of the FSF

#90

Post by konjin »

colechristensen wrote: post #84
konjin wrote: post #75

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So you want no one autistic to ever be in a position of leadership?

Indeed autism poses a challenge for a person in a leadership position. One facet of autism is difficulty in certain social interactions and that difficulty can cause real harm to people. You shouldn't prejudge a person because of a diagnosis, nor should you pre-acquit. You can embrace acceptance that people are different and realize that differences make some people better and worse for certain things.

>You can embrace acceptance that people are different and realize that differences make some people better and worse for certain things.

I find it astonishing that blatant abelism like yours is acceptable in polite society.

>You can embrace acceptance that genders are different and realize that differences make some genders better and worse for certain things.

>You can embrace acceptance that races are different and realize that differences make some races better and worse for certain things.

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