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NFTs Are a Pyramid Scheme and People Are Already Losing Money

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Re: NFTs Are a Pyramid Scheme and People Are Already Losing Money

#251

Post by flycaliguy »

koffiezet wrote: post #250
rory wrote: post #138

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It does seem really stupid, but I don't see how it's substantively different than (also stupid-seeming) physical collectibles like baseball cards or Bearbricks. The supply of the "special" versions of those two collectibles is also constrained in a totally artificial manner.

One of the problems is that by definition, digital assets can be replicated at a virtual zero-cost. There is no "original" copy to be owned, since a digital asset that is uploaded is already a copy of a copy of a copy of some bits. If it happens to be an image or movie, and you open it in your browser, you're already looking at a copy. A baseball card that was produced in the 60's cannot be reproduced atom-for-atom.…

What if in the future we have virtual reality merging more into our lives. In that world it would be different, having the real deal asset would be valuable.

Re: NFTs Are a Pyramid Scheme and People Are Already Losing Money

#252

Post by NoSorryCannot »

bluedevil2k wrote: post #158
SkipperCat wrote: post #118

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Agreed. It reminds me of diamonds. They're super expensive because the DeBeers family convinced everyone it's a sign of love and marriage. They're really not that rare and can be made in a lab. Aside from industrial grinders, there's really not much use for them.

It’s not anything like diamonds - diamond prices have slowly and consistently increased over the last 100 years and doesn’t see the crazy 20-30% swings in weekly prices that NFTs and even BTC sees. It’s considered a safe investment with a solid store or value. And dismissing them as “only useful for grinders” dismisses their value in jewelry. If millions find joy in having diamonds in their jewelry then I’d say there…

I agree that it's not much like diamonds.

DeBeers was essentially a cartel, serving in a role kind of like a central bank. They manipulated the supply to keep prices high and reasonably stable and also manufactured the demand out of thin air. Their power has waned some; diamonds aren't worth much second hand anymore, but they're still overpriced at retail and there's still the legacy of marriage conventions requiring a diamond, now with the additional caveat that it must be natural.

The idea of DeBeers is anathema to the ideals of crypto currency, even if the reality of it is far from perfect.

Re: NFTs Are a Pyramid Scheme and People Are Already Losing Money

#253

Post by CryptoPunk »

y-satellite wrote: post #216
CryptoPunk wrote: post #78

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Source on Beeple's business partner buying it?

https://amycastor.com/2021/03/14/metakovan-the-mystery-beepl... Particularly the "Number Go Up" section, which shows that the buyer also runs (and owns a majority of) a crypto token called "B20", which curiously enough, Beeple also has a 2% stake in.

That's not proof of them being business partners.

Re: NFTs Are a Pyramid Scheme and People Are Already Losing Money

#254

Post by cifu69 »

niahmiah wrote: post #3

It's stupid at face value. No pyramid required. You cannot intrinsically link real world items to tokens. The source of truth is the real world, not the token. Add an unlimited supply of unique things, and how could anyone expect to make money from this?

the source of true is always concensous. the best example i can give you es bitcoin. nevertheless seeing NFTs as non-physical is also not true, every thing that operates in the blockchain is sustend onto de nodes thoso nodes are sustend by computers, and those computers are physical. it doesnt matter wheather fot the computers are 1s and 0s and the end of the day they are link to the reality

Re: NFTs Are a Pyramid Scheme and People Are Already Losing Money

#255

Post by dmingod666 »

niahmiah wrote: post #3

It's stupid at face value. No pyramid required. You cannot intrinsically link real world items to tokens. The source of truth is the real world, not the token. Add an unlimited supply of unique things, and how could anyone expect to make money from this?

Do you notice how many of your real world identities are linked to an entry in a database? How much of your assets are entries in a database.

What is missing is centralization and consensus of validity, db entries linking to the real world is done everyday.

Re: NFTs Are a Pyramid Scheme and People Are Already Losing Money

#256

Post by lokedhs »

adnzzzzZ wrote: post #192
ben_w wrote: post #175

Earlier quoted context omitted.

b isn’t the case, because a is entirely self-referential. Anyone can any any time create a new private key, so you can only trust things signed with private keys you already trust. That trust can be another private key signing it, but ultimately the foundation of the trust is in the physical world where someone can lock you up for breaking rules. I’m equivocating if this is the is/ought problem or the Münchhausen tri…

In the case of artists the foundation of the trust relies on the fact that the token is only valuable if it comes from the artist. This doesn't involve locking anyone up, as tokens created by people who aren't the artists are simply ignored since they inherently have no value. There's no reason to assume that in other domains what you said should be the case more often than what I said if we both don't know the detai…

But how do you prove that the artist was the one who issued the NFT?

Re: NFTs Are a Pyramid Scheme and People Are Already Losing Money

#257

Post by TomSwirly »

ddeyar wrote: post #179
PragmaticPulp wrote: post #129

Earlier quoted context omitted.

NFTs don't transfer real-world rights. They only transfer the NFT itself. You could potentially create a real-world contract that ties ownership of the real-world asset to whoever holds the NFT, but that would introduce real-world legal issues like voiding the NFT in the event that it was transferred fraudulently and so on. It seems a lot of people have been misled into believing that NFTs are something they're not.…

Thanks for this conversation. It is truly very misleading. There is no implicit copyright. There are mentions about ownership and also contradictions. This generalization I made, was wrong.

I want to comment you on your very good attitude here.

(And yes, it's just baffling that people pay for these NFTs when they really get nothing out of them.)

Re: NFTs Are a Pyramid Scheme and People Are Already Losing Money

#258

Post by TomSwirly »

arthur_sav wrote: post #95
herodotus wrote: post #6

I wrote my first Fortran program in 1969. I have been active in the field of computing since then, both as an academic and as a programmer in industry. During this time, there have been several times when I first heard about something new, something potentially game changing. I remember some of them very clearly: 1. Around 1971: a Wang desktop computer. Imagine: a computer that fit on a desk! 2. Visicalc (spreadsheet…

As with any technology we only see its impact with the pass of time. Bitcoin is holding pretty strong after 12ish years, you can't deny facts. You can question the practical applications but technology is often used in other ways than it was originally intended. In the case of Bitcoin it may prove to be useful only as a cross border digital store of value instead of an every day currency. Same with NFTs, you can dism…

> Bitcoin is holding pretty strong after 12ish years, you can't deny facts.

But its only uses are criminality.

Re: NFTs Are a Pyramid Scheme and People Are Already Losing Money

#259

Post by gverrilla »

zepto wrote: post #235
gverrilla wrote: post #134

Earlier quoted context omitted.

NFT Art, imo: They are future contracts for ideas in the metaidea market. They have monetary value because crypto believers think and some work and some gamble to make it go HUGE and make all believers a lot of money. It's an emergent marketing scheme and donation mechanism. It's actually genius. Triple-entry accounting has a huge number of desirable real-world applications, not to mention it's a living part within t…

> and make all believers a lot of money Somehow I think it will transfer money from believers to a small group of non-believers.

and then back to believers when they sell :D

Re: NFTs Are a Pyramid Scheme and People Are Already Losing Money

#260

Post by ses1984 »

TomSwirly wrote: post #238
ses1984 wrote: post #154

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I am not really following you. The appeal of an nft is that it doesn't rely on a saas, it doesn't rely on a trusted third party that needs up time that needs to be available in the future. Jacob Collier tried to sell an nft that granted lifetime access to his concerts. The appeal of such an nft is that it can be traded independently of any third party, on the open market. Of course it depends on Jacob's promise to ho…

So it's like a contract, but not enforceable. In other words, worthless.

Right, an NFT by itself is worthless. A NFT granting access to a concert is only as valuable as the promise associated with it.

It could be tied to an actual contract.

The value prop of an NFT is pretty much limited to just being able to transfer it reliably without relying on a trusted third party.

It's not like it provides a cryptographic guarantee that some contract that exists outside it will be honored.

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