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Tesla Admits Current ‘Full Self-Driving Beta’ Will Always Be a Level 2 System

thedrive.com

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Re: Tesla Admits Current ‘Full Self-Driving Beta’ Will Always Be a Level 2 System

#31

Post by pa7ch »

BadassFractal wrote: post #20
IgorPartola wrote: post #17

Look from a consumer standpoint why would I want a system like this? I mean aside from the toy factor, why would I trust it? I can’t take a nap while it’s driving. I can’t look at a screen or read a book. I have to in fact be more on alert than when I am driving because when I am driving I know what my inputs into the car are and I just need to worry about the external inputs (shape of the road, traffic, signs, road…

I would love something like this for the longer, boring, predictable drives. For example the I5 drive from LA to SF. That's a pretty straightforward, predictable and mostly uneventful 6h drive that seems straightforward to delegate to a machine. There are no pedestrians, no intersections, nothing crossing the street. The main dangers would be around objects on the road, other vehicles getting in a crash or doing some…

The included autopilot seems good enough for this usecase, many report it makes long drives less tiring.

Level 2 FSD honestly seems worse from a human UX standpoint that it seems like an anti feature to me. I'm a fan of tesla and I've come around on autopilot being a nice feature but I think this FSD focus is silly and overhyped at least in regards to providing any value to customers anytime soon.

Re: Tesla Admits Current ‘Full Self-Driving Beta’ Will Always Be a Level 2 System

#32

Post by moistbar »

c7DJTLrn wrote: post #27
foepys wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I hate how the passenger is absolutely amazed and always commenting how well the car handles some minor tasks while it fails miserably at double parking, turning, and most importantly driving predictably for other cars. The driver is luckily a lot more skeptical but that could be attributed to the fact the he is the one being highly alert and keeping the car from running into things.

When you consider that a lot of Tesla drivers are also a) Elon Musk fanatics b) shareholders trying to save face on behalf of the company their reaction makes perfect sense.

Or, you know, they could just think it's cool.

Re: Tesla Admits Current ‘Full Self-Driving Beta’ Will Always Be a Level 2 System

#33

Post by foerbert »

BadassFractal wrote: post #20
IgorPartola wrote: post #17

Look from a consumer standpoint why would I want a system like this? I mean aside from the toy factor, why would I trust it? I can’t take a nap while it’s driving. I can’t look at a screen or read a book. I have to in fact be more on alert than when I am driving because when I am driving I know what my inputs into the car are and I just need to worry about the external inputs (shape of the road, traffic, signs, road…

I would love something like this for the longer, boring, predictable drives. For example the I5 drive from LA to SF. That's a pretty straightforward, predictable and mostly uneventful 6h drive that seems straightforward to delegate to a machine. There are no pedestrians, no intersections, nothing crossing the street. The main dangers would be around objects on the road, other vehicles getting in a crash or doing some…

Not even Tesla is saying their system could or should be used that way. You're making quite a few assumptions about the capabilities of the system and going outside of the instructed and permitted use of the system if you are going to go read for 6 hours while the car drives itself.

Unexpected situations can and will happen. They are not at all as simple as "well the car will just detect it and break faster than me" by a long shot. What if there is debris on the road and the car misreads it? What if there are actually pedestrians because somebody got into an accident and decided it would be a bright idea to take a little walk?

I could go on, and I'm sure you or somebody else could answer every hypothetical I could come up with. That's not the point. The point is that even a "boring, predictable drive" is anything but. We put in a ton of processing power that makes that drive (usually) seem boring and predictable. A level 2 system is not designed to be let loose even in these circumstances.

Re: Tesla Admits Current ‘Full Self-Driving Beta’ Will Always Be a Level 2 System

#34

Post by ghaff »

darksaints wrote: post #26
ghaff wrote: post #6

Much as I'd love to have L5 self-driving today, it would probably be at least a little funny to see the number of people on this board insisting it would be available in 2018 or 2019 and certainly not many years out.

It probably is funny, although it is still infuriating as fuck to read people claiming that there is no need to invest in public transportation because self driving cars are right around the corner.

Well, and if we could wave a wand and have universal self-driving--while remote work throws something of a wrench into the calculus--you presumably have people living further away from work, having a car circle the block a few times rather than park, etc.

I'd place a bigger and bigger bet on cars driving fully autonomously on designated sections of highway and Manhattan being essentially a maybe someday location over the next decade or two.

Re: Tesla Admits Current ‘Full Self-Driving Beta’ Will Always Be a Level 2 System

#35

Post by AlotOfReading »

BadassFractal wrote: post #20
IgorPartola wrote: post #17

Look from a consumer standpoint why would I want a system like this? I mean aside from the toy factor, why would I trust it? I can’t take a nap while it’s driving. I can’t look at a screen or read a book. I have to in fact be more on alert than when I am driving because when I am driving I know what my inputs into the car are and I just need to worry about the external inputs (shape of the road, traffic, signs, road…

I would love something like this for the longer, boring, predictable drives. For example the I5 drive from LA to SF. That's a pretty straightforward, predictable and mostly uneventful 6h drive that seems straightforward to delegate to a machine. There are no pedestrians, no intersections, nothing crossing the street. The main dangers would be around objects on the road, other vehicles getting in a crash or doing some…

You'd be required to pay attention continuously and be able to do immediate takeovers at all times for that LA-SF drive at L2. You simply wouldn't have to actually drive. L3 is where your attention is "allowed" to wander. Quoting NHTSA guidance:

> Therefore, the L2 driver is expected to be alert and monitoring the road continuously. The L3 driver is not expected to be paying attention to the road at all times, but is expected to be takeover-ready with advance notice.

Re: Tesla Admits Current ‘Full Self-Driving Beta’ Will Always Be a Level 2 System

#37

Post by rsynnott »

BadassFractal wrote: post #20
IgorPartola wrote: post #17

Look from a consumer standpoint why would I want a system like this? I mean aside from the toy factor, why would I trust it? I can’t take a nap while it’s driving. I can’t look at a screen or read a book. I have to in fact be more on alert than when I am driving because when I am driving I know what my inputs into the car are and I just need to worry about the external inputs (shape of the road, traffic, signs, road…

I would love something like this for the longer, boring, predictable drives. For example the I5 drive from LA to SF. That's a pretty straightforward, predictable and mostly uneventful 6h drive that seems straightforward to delegate to a machine. There are no pedestrians, no intersections, nothing crossing the street. The main dangers would be around objects on the road, other vehicles getting in a crash or doing some…

That would be a level 3 system (ie one where the driver can disengage but be ready to react immediately when the car tells them to). This is a level 2 system; ie you must be alert at all times in case the car tries to kill you. You can’t watch a movie in a car like this.

Re: Tesla Admits Current ‘Full Self-Driving Beta’ Will Always Be a Level 2 System

#38

Post by rsynnott »

foepys wrote: post #11
donarb wrote: post #2

This is a scary video of FSD beta 8.2 driving around the streets of Oakland. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=antLneVlxcs

I hate how the passenger is absolutely amazed and always commenting how well the car handles some minor tasks while it fails miserably at double parking, turning, and most importantly driving predictably for other cars. The driver is luckily a lot more skeptical but that could be attributed to the fact the he is the one being highly alert and keeping the car from running into things.

It’s pretty bizarre; there’s a definite feeling of artificial balance. Maybe it makes their videos more palatable to Tesla fans.
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