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Neutralizing antibodies against SARS-CoV-2 variants after infection, vaccination

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Re: Neutralizing antibodies against SARS-CoV-2 variants after infection, vaccination

#141

Post by mrtesthah »

figaroniguzo wrote: post #135
WalterBright wrote: post #133

We've been vaccinating people since December. There ought to be statistical evidence now of whether and how much vaccinated people still get sick from Covid and its variants. Why do we still hear that epidemiologists have no idea about this? For example, everyone being tested for covid or being admitted to the hospital for covid, should be asked if they've been vaccinated, when, and which vaccination. 70 million peop…

To keep the fear and lockdown measures justified. Just like "we don't know if vaccines affect transmission" or "masks work to mitigate the spread" (as if masks were discovered in 2020)

Your conspiratorial bitterness has no place in a healthy discourse. Take it somewhere else.

Re: Neutralizing antibodies against SARS-CoV-2 variants after infection, vaccination

#142

Post by sdenton4 »

irq11 wrote: post #126
sdenton4 wrote: post #122

Earlier quoted context omitted.

'Earlier studies focused largely on long-term effects in hospitalized COVID patients, McCulloch noted. "Our study is unique in characterizing a group consisting of mostly outpatients: 90% of our cohort experienced only a mild COVID-19 illness, yet one-third continue to have lingering effects," she said. '"Many of these individuals are young and have no pre-existing medical conditions, indicating that even relatively…

So your best evidence of this phenomenon is an uncontrolled survey of people who knew they had covid, asking them if they feel bad? And the most commonly reported symptom is hypertension , at 13%? I’ll let the researchers do the talking here: ”Study limitations include small sample size, single study location, and potential bias from self-reported symptoms, the researchers acknowledged.” This is certainly not a rebut…

That was the "let me Google that for you" response to your own completely unsupported claim. It seems like you're unwilling to look at evidence contrary to your opinions; the 'debate' is amongst deniers who aren't looking at evidence. I suggest some self reflection is in order; you're arguing with the same tactics as a climate change denier.

https://www.health.harvard.edu/blog/the-tragedy-of-the-post-...

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Long_COVID

Re: Neutralizing antibodies against SARS-CoV-2 variants after infection, vaccination

#143

Post by bredren »

andy_ppp wrote: post #128
lamontcg wrote: post #121

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It is still important to stop this particular strain and to achieve sufficient vaccination levels to achieve herd immunity. That immunity will likely be durable for many years (based on the somewhat recent study of HCoV-229E). That will force the virus to mutate to achieve true escape immunity (a strain, not a variant, which can reinfect everyone all over) which will likely come at a cost to fitness, since one or two…

“That virus strain will not be as transmissible or virulent as what we are dealing with now, because it has had to make those costly "decisions".” I’m not convinced you can absolutely guarantee these changes will make the virus less dangerous, we could be unlucky and it could become worse.

I'm not convinced we can get an effective global, rolling vaccination program in place to set up effective population immunity.

From what I can tell, almost all public discussion of the future of Covid is similar to a "happy path."

Re: Neutralizing antibodies against SARS-CoV-2 variants after infection, vaccination

#144

Post by CA0DA »

WalterBright wrote: post #131
mbrameld wrote: post #94

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Answering these two questions will help you uncover the errors in your thought process: 1. Are masks suggested to protect the wearer from contracting the virus or to prevent the wearer from spreading the virus? 2. Are vaccinated individuals still able to host and transmit the virus, despite not contracting the disease caused by the virus?

> Are vaccinated individuals still able to host and transmit the virus, despite not contracting the disease caused by the virus? If that is the case, herd immunity cannot be achieved with vaccinations.

Which is a huge problem.

Re: Neutralizing antibodies against SARS-CoV-2 variants after infection, vaccination

#145

Post by SteveNuts »

offby37years wrote: post #138
osrec wrote: post #137

Earlier quoted context omitted.

But why? Why would any government want to justify longer than needed lockdowns?

“Power tends to corrupt, and absolute power corrupts absolutely” — John Dalberg-Acton

But don't lockdowns cause a "loss of power" (economic, trade, prestige)? This just doesn't make sense to me.

Re: Neutralizing antibodies against SARS-CoV-2 variants after infection, vaccination

#146

Post by dekerta »

offby37years wrote: post #138
osrec wrote: post #137

Earlier quoted context omitted.

But why? Why would any government want to justify longer than needed lockdowns?

“Power tends to corrupt, and absolute power corrupts absolutely” — John Dalberg-Acton

That's a nice quote, but still doesn't answer the question. No government in their right mind wants to continue lockdowns unnecessarily. Lockdowns cost a lot of money and make a lot of voters angry

Re: Neutralizing antibodies against SARS-CoV-2 variants after infection, vaccination

#147

Post by mesozoic »

WalterBright wrote: post #133

We've been vaccinating people since December. There ought to be statistical evidence now of whether and how much vaccinated people still get sick from Covid and its variants. Why do we still hear that epidemiologists have no idea about this? For example, everyone being tested for covid or being admitted to the hospital for covid, should be asked if they've been vaccinated, when, and which vaccination. 70 million peop…

Agree we should now have data to look at but don't? They can have their kayfabe but when it comes to me injecting stuff to believe it I have questions.

Re: Neutralizing antibodies against SARS-CoV-2 variants after infection, vaccination

#148

Post by offby37years »

dekerta wrote: post #146
offby37years wrote: post #138

Earlier quoted context omitted.

“Power tends to corrupt, and absolute power corrupts absolutely” — John Dalberg-Acton

That's a nice quote, but still doesn't answer the question. No government in their right mind wants to continue lockdowns unnecessarily. Lockdowns cost a lot of money and make a lot of voters angry

Lockdowns were just meant to be for two weeks to “flatten the curve”, remember?

Re: Neutralizing antibodies against SARS-CoV-2 variants after infection, vaccination

#149

Post by km3r »

osrec wrote: post #137
figaroniguzo wrote: post #135

Earlier quoted context omitted.

To keep the fear and lockdown measures justified. Just like "we don't know if vaccines affect transmission" or "masks work to mitigate the spread" (as if masks were discovered in 2020)

But why? Why would any government want to justify longer than needed lockdowns?

Rather then some government conspiracy , I think it's easily explained by media pushing fear to get clicks, leading to people supporting unnecessary measures. I still talk to people who are afraid to even do outdoor dining after they have gotten their second dose (plus 2 weeks incubation). People like that vote, post, and message their representatives, leading to where we are now.

Re: Neutralizing antibodies against SARS-CoV-2 variants after infection, vaccination

#150

Post by dbetteridge »

idoubtit wrote: post #46

The current HN title deviates from the original title in a way that is misleading. "Vaccines Are Effective Against Covid Variants" is a wrong affirmation. The original article only states that in vitro experiments show that some vaccines are effective against some variants. Not all vaccines, not all variants, and no test on human beings. A counter point is that some vaccines seem to be ineffective agains some variant…

I've posted this before regarding the SA paper on AZ, worth taking a look at the below.

The probable outcome is minor to moderate symptoms that would normally be blocked by antibodies can still present (So no reduced transmission) but severe symptoms are still prevented by the vaccinated patients T-cells response.

This paper is looking at a small scale human study in SA with mostly younger participants, which does make the results difficult to apply to the wider population. They also only use a 4 week dosing schedule where the suggestion and actual rollout in the UK is following the 10-12 week schedule between first and second doses which was shown to increase efficacy from ~70 to ~80% after the second dose (UK - Kent variant)

The variant in question seems to escape the majority of Antibody detection, but T-Cells still seem to provide significant protection against severe disease and death.

https://academic.oup.com/cid/advance-article/doi/10.1093/cid...

https://www.biorxiv.org/content/10.1101/2021.03.11.435000v1

The main published results aren't yet from human scale studies but here is one in hamsters showing a comparison in organ damage and results between unvaccinated and vaccinated with the Oxford/AZ vaccine.

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