As U.S. schools shuttered, student mental health cratered, survey finds • Hacker News Board

Re: As U.S. schools shuttered, student mental health cratered, survey finds

#31

Post by crummy » Sun, Mar 21, 2021, 7:12 PM UTC

tptacek wrote: post #5

bko wrote: post #2

This is really unfortunate second order effect of lockdowns. You see the SAT scores go down as well and some groups don't want to admit the negative effects of in a shift to in home learning, especially among the most vulnerable groups. And we're not even honest about it and just retreat to the idea of getting rid of standardized tests altogether to mask over the achievement gap.

It's a second-order effect of not prioritizing school reopenings. Lockdowns aren't all-or-nothing.

Right. We should have closed restaurants, bars, whatever so we could keep schools open.

Re: As U.S. schools shuttered, student mental health cratered, survey finds

#32

Post by kortilla » Sun, Mar 21, 2021, 7:12 PM UTC

germinalphrase wrote: post #13

cassalian wrote: post #9

Anyone else find it strange that a country that has often fallen in line with "think of the children" arguments for hypothetical dangers appears to be completely uncaring about very real dangers of social isolation that are impacting our youth?

The US federal gov’t spends about 3x as much on those over the age of 65 than it does those under the age of 18 (including transfer payments to parents of those children)[0]. Personally, I think that should be flipped, but kid’s don’t vote. [0] https://www.cbo.gov/sites/default/files/cbofiles/ftpdocs/23x...

That includes social security. What a stupid comparison.

The whole point of social security is a government retirement program based on you putting money into it.

Re: As U.S. schools shuttered, student mental health cratered, survey finds

#33

Post by DC1350 » Sun, Mar 21, 2021, 7:12 PM UTC

I'm not a child (uni student) but I've spent the last year sitting at a computer in my childhood bedroom for 14 hours a day and I'm fucking miserable. My life feels fake since nothing I'm working towards exists in the offline world.

Re: As U.S. schools shuttered, student mental health cratered, survey finds

#34

Post by mynameishere » Sun, Mar 21, 2021, 7:13 PM UTC

mrfusion wrote: post #16

That’s just the tip of the iceberg too. A quick summary of the lockdown harms: missed hospital visits for heart attacks and cancer screening, cancelled childhood vaccinations, school closures, child and spousal abuse, kids growing up without seeing facial expressions on others, pain from postponed elective (including dental) procedures, food shortages in the third world (and even in developed countries), the highest…

To put this into concrete terms, imagine the number of breast cancer screenings that were delayed by two or three months--or more, as some people were so terrified by the pandemic that they pushed back appointments beyond that required. How many? Five hundred thousand? A million? Now how many of those might have caught cancer early? All of those are much more dangerous or even deadly than they might have been.

That's one type of preventative treatment. Now picture all the prostate exams, blood work, colonoscopies, skin cancer screenings, etc, etc, etc. Multiply it out and you have a massive scourge caused by the media's promotion of a flu-like disease.

But multiplication is hard.

Re: As U.S. schools shuttered, student mental health cratered, survey finds

#35

Post by matz1 » Sun, Mar 21, 2021, 7:13 PM UTC

happytoexplain wrote: post #23

cassalian wrote: post #9

Anyone else find it strange that a country that has often fallen in line with "think of the children" arguments for hypothetical dangers appears to be completely uncaring about very real dangers of social isolation that are impacting our youth?

I don't understand - are you implying that the act of deciding to have a long lockdown necessitates that the decision makers do not care about children, or are there specifics you are leaving unsaid?

Isn't it obvious? The lockdown harm the children.

Re: As U.S. schools shuttered, student mental health cratered, survey finds

#36

Post by thaumasiotes » Sun, Mar 21, 2021, 7:13 PM UTC

germinalphrase wrote: post #13

cassalian wrote: post #9

Anyone else find it strange that a country that has often fallen in line with "think of the children" arguments for hypothetical dangers appears to be completely uncaring about very real dangers of social isolation that are impacting our youth?

The US federal gov’t spends about 3x as much on those over the age of 65 than it does those under the age of 18 (including transfer payments to parents of those children)[0]. Personally, I think that should be flipped, but kid’s don’t vote. [0] https://www.cbo.gov/sites/default/files/cbofiles/ftpdocs/23x...

> Personally, I think that should be flipped, but kid’s don’t vote.

The most interesting place I've seen this type of argument made it along these lines:

- US policy is for housing to appreciate in cost over time

- Housing is demanded by young people starting new households, and freed up by old people dying or moving into group housing.

- Housing policy is thus a massive ongoing transfer of wealth from incipient households to long-established ones.

- This is no way for a non-dysfunctional society to operate

Re: As U.S. schools shuttered, student mental health cratered, survey finds

#37

Post by gravypod » Sun, Mar 21, 2021, 7:14 PM UTC

cassalian wrote: post #9

Anyone else find it strange that a country that has often fallen in line with "think of the children" arguments for hypothetical dangers appears to be completely uncaring about very real dangers of social isolation that are impacting our youth?

I don't know if you live in the US but for anyone who doesn't I think this mainly boils down to this: the average US citizen does not believe metal health issues are real. In high school I've met people who were clearly suicidal and I've seen the advice given to them: "Just go outside more" or "you don't have anything to be sad about".

One of my friends was depressed and suicidal through high school. He often acted out and got sent to a out-of-school suspension program. There he told people what he was depressed and had thoughts of self harm. What did the advisors of this program say? They didn't believe he was depressed! They said "If you want to kill yourself then why don't you go to the train down the block and jump in front of it".

This is all anacdata but it's my guess that the HN-bubble likely selects for people who don't think like this so it might not seem like this on the internet.

Re: As U.S. schools shuttered, student mental health cratered, survey finds

#38

Post by 1experience » Sun, Mar 21, 2021, 7:14 PM UTC

mrfusion wrote: post #16

That’s just the tip of the iceberg too. A quick summary of the lockdown harms: missed hospital visits for heart attacks and cancer screening, cancelled childhood vaccinations, school closures, child and spousal abuse, kids growing up without seeing facial expressions on others, pain from postponed elective (including dental) procedures, food shortages in the third world (and even in developed countries), the highest…

And you aren't even considering the effects on developing countries

150 Million pushed into Extreme Poverty by 2021 https://www.worldbank.org/en/news/press-release/2020/10/07/c...

168k child hunger deaths predicted in Africa https://apnews.com/article/africa-hunger-study-coronavirus-c...

Re: As U.S. schools shuttered, student mental health cratered, survey finds

#39

Post by matz1 » Sun, Mar 21, 2021, 7:14 PM UTC

crummy wrote: post #31

tptacek wrote: post #5

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's a second-order effect of not prioritizing school reopenings. Lockdowns aren't all-or-nothing.

Right. We should have closed restaurants, bars, whatever so we could keep schools open.

No, we shouldn't have lockdown in the first place, keep everything open. Adopt measure that doesn't involve lockdown.

Re: As U.S. schools shuttered, student mental health cratered, survey finds

#40

Post by tptacek » Sun, Mar 21, 2021, 7:14 PM UTC

crummy wrote: post #31

tptacek wrote: post #5

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's a second-order effect of not prioritizing school reopenings. Lockdowns aren't all-or-nothing.

Right. We should have closed restaurants, bars, whatever so we could keep schools open.

We also should have prioritized epidemiology studies involving schools --- there seems to be a growing consensus that K-8 schools aren't significant spreaders. The HVAC concerns about schools are apparently easily addressed with basic, portable air filters and box fans. There's a lot we could have done differently here.