As U.S. schools shuttered, student mental health cratered, survey finds • Hacker News Board

Re: As U.S. schools shuttered, student mental health cratered, survey finds

#21

Post by afavour » Sun, Mar 21, 2021, 7:05 PM UTC

cassalian wrote: post #9

Anyone else find it strange that a country that has often fallen in line with "think of the children" arguments for hypothetical dangers appears to be completely uncaring about very real dangers of social isolation that are impacting our youth?

“think of the children” has always been a lie, though. Or at best a surface level truth. When the rubber hits the road (i.e. when it comes to spending money) the US as a country doesn’t care about things like early childhood education all that much.

In many ways the pandemic response was in line with the norm: rich kids do just fine, poorer kids are mostly ignored.

Re: As U.S. schools shuttered, student mental health cratered, survey finds

#22

Post by germinalphrase » Sun, Mar 21, 2021, 7:05 PM UTC

selimthegrim wrote: post #14

germinalphrase wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The US federal gov’t spends about 3x as much on those over the age of 65 than it does those under the age of 18 (including transfer payments to parents of those children)[0]. Personally, I think that should be flipped, but kid’s don’t vote. [0] https://www.cbo.gov/sites/default/files/cbofiles/ftpdocs/23x...

Why so?

The young have little/no independent earning capacity. The investment we put in the young has a much longer time to accrue positive personal, social and economic benefits. Positive interventions in youth poverty and social stability reduce lifelong skill and mental health deficits that promote adult health, wellness and independence.

Re: As U.S. schools shuttered, student mental health cratered, survey finds

#23

Post by happytoexplain » Sun, Mar 21, 2021, 7:05 PM UTC

cassalian wrote: post #9

Anyone else find it strange that a country that has often fallen in line with "think of the children" arguments for hypothetical dangers appears to be completely uncaring about very real dangers of social isolation that are impacting our youth?

I don't understand - are you implying that the act of deciding to have a long lockdown necessitates that the decision makers do not care about children, or are there specifics you are leaving unsaid?

Re: As U.S. schools shuttered, student mental health cratered, survey finds

#24

Post by tachyonbeam » Sun, Mar 21, 2021, 7:05 PM UTC

germinalphrase wrote: post #13

cassalian wrote: post #9

Anyone else find it strange that a country that has often fallen in line with "think of the children" arguments for hypothetical dangers appears to be completely uncaring about very real dangers of social isolation that are impacting our youth?

The US federal gov’t spends about 3x as much on those over the age of 65 than it does those under the age of 18 (including transfer payments to parents of those children)[0]. Personally, I think that should be flipped, but kid’s don’t vote. [0] https://www.cbo.gov/sites/default/files/cbofiles/ftpdocs/23x...

I'm assuming you mean the US spends 33% as much on those under 18 as it does on those over 65 (otherwise your comment about voting makes no sense)? If so, it seem sensible for the government to spend more on the elderly, simply because they cost most and there is nobody else to pay for it. People under 18 typically have one or two parents to care for them. Older people don't have parents and don't necessarily have family to pay for their housing, food, etc. Then you also have to factor in that healthcare costs for the elderly are necessarily more expensive.

Not saying kids don't deserve to be well-cared for. I was a welfare kid and I'm glad there were welfare programs. Just saying I think we'll all be glad we can also get some help when we're over 65, especially if we can't count on our family (I have no siblings and may not have children).

Re: As U.S. schools shuttered, student mental health cratered, survey finds

#25

Post by germinalphrase » Sun, Mar 21, 2021, 7:07 PM UTC

an_opabinia wrote: post #18

germinalphrase wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The US federal gov’t spends about 3x as much on those over the age of 65 than it does those under the age of 18 (including transfer payments to parents of those children)[0]. Personally, I think that should be flipped, but kid’s don’t vote. [0] https://www.cbo.gov/sites/default/files/cbofiles/ftpdocs/23x...

I think you flipped the numbers my dude. The federal government spent "about $615 billion—on transfer payments and services for people age 65 or older" in 2000, and "Federal spending on children in 2000 will total about $148 billion, or $175 billion if payments to the children’s parents are included"

Indeed, I did. Edited to avoid arguing against my own position.

Re: As U.S. schools shuttered, student mental health cratered, survey finds

#26

Post by cpach » Sun, Mar 21, 2021, 7:07 PM UTC

dj_mc_merlin wrote: post #11

perardi wrote: post #6

The sun is shining, the vaccines are flowing, I can eat inside now, I am feeling optimistic today. But on my grey days: I wonder how long the mental health trauma of all this will last. Besides school-age depression, there was a noticeable uptick in drug overdoses. ( https://www.statnews.com/2021/02/16/as-pandemic-ushered-in-i... ) And, anecdotally, I have several friends and acquaintances who developed severe drug i…

When times become hard, people turn to drugs, depression and religion. The wave will die down with the virus.

Maybe it will. But depression and drug abuse can have very long-lasting effects. For example losing a job or becoming homeless. It can be very hard to recover from that.

Re: As U.S. schools shuttered, student mental health cratered, survey finds

#27

Post by bko » Sun, Mar 21, 2021, 7:09 PM UTC

germinalphrase wrote: post #13

cassalian wrote: post #9

Anyone else find it strange that a country that has often fallen in line with "think of the children" arguments for hypothetical dangers appears to be completely uncaring about very real dangers of social isolation that are impacting our youth?

The US federal gov’t spends about 3x as much on those over the age of 65 than it does those under the age of 18 (including transfer payments to parents of those children)[0]. Personally, I think that should be flipped, but kid’s don’t vote. [0] https://www.cbo.gov/sites/default/files/cbofiles/ftpdocs/23x...

US spending more than average OECD country on education in relative terms (GDP) and even more in absolute terms due to higher GDP

It's just that high absolute amount of medicare spending throws off the comparison.

https://www.oecd.org/els/soc/PF1_2_Public_expenditure_educat...

Re: As U.S. schools shuttered, student mental health cratered, survey finds

#28

Post by kortilla » Sun, Mar 21, 2021, 7:10 PM UTC

cassalian wrote: post #9

Anyone else find it strange that a country that has often fallen in line with "think of the children" arguments for hypothetical dangers appears to be completely uncaring about very real dangers of social isolation that are impacting our youth?

“Think of the children” is a tool to manipulate people. It’s not an end-goal in itself, especially if it costs a lot of money.

Re: As U.S. schools shuttered, student mental health cratered, survey finds

#29

Post by lisper » Sun, Mar 21, 2021, 7:10 PM UTC

afavour wrote: post #21

cassalian wrote: post #9

Anyone else find it strange that a country that has often fallen in line with "think of the children" arguments for hypothetical dangers appears to be completely uncaring about very real dangers of social isolation that are impacting our youth?

“think of the children” has always been a lie, though. Or at best a surface level truth. When the rubber hits the road (i.e. when it comes to spending money) the US as a country doesn’t care about things like early childhood education all that much. In many ways the pandemic response was in line with the norm: rich kids do just fine, poorer kids are mostly ignored.

It's not quite a lie, just a very narrow scope. The implied context of "think of the children" is usually something like, "Think of how horrible it would be if the children were exposed to temptations like sex and drugs." Other aspects of children's welfare don't figure as highly in the calculus of those who espouse this slogan.

Re: As U.S. schools shuttered, student mental health cratered, survey finds

#30

Post by monocasa » Sun, Mar 21, 2021, 7:11 PM UTC

cassalian wrote: post #9

Anyone else find it strange that a country that has often fallen in line with "think of the children" arguments for hypothetical dangers appears to be completely uncaring about very real dangers of social isolation that are impacting our youth?

They were balancing it against what they saw in Italy: allowing the virus to get out of hand and overwhelm the hospital system and your death rate from covid jumps into the double digits. Kids would be pretty depressed being surrounded by a 8 digit body count in the US too.