At Brown U.'s semiconductor fab cleanroom we had a Windows 3.1 PC controlling our plasma etching machine. One day we opened up its case--not a speck of visible dust despite operating continuously since the early 90's!
Why use old computers and operating systems?
101–110 of 146 posts
Re: Why use old computers and operating systems?
#102I've enjoyed installing windows 98 on old hardware; unlike windows xp, the OS installs without network authorization and runs mind of legacy software. But the couple of old towers I've gotten from friend's closets have lacked driver CDs. Once you reinstall windows (perhaps because of a bad hard drive sector) it becomes impossible to get the sound card working again or better than 16 colors out of the graphics card. Vendors like even intel no longer provide 80710E chipset drivers and the ones for download on shareware sites don't work.
Re: Why use old computers and operating systems?
#103The website crashed, failing to withstand viewers from HN.
Re: Why use old computers and operating systems?
#104Earlier quoted context omitted.
my personal rule of thumb is that my software must be useable at -O0 with address sanitizers on my desktop - so far that has meant that at -O3 it stays useable on raspberry pi-3 level hardware. A few months ago I tried to make a build which targetted ivybridge-level CPUs, it took no more than one day for a few users to report that it didn't work on their machines, turns out a lot of people still rock some old AMD Phe…
> my personal rule of thumb is that my software must be useable at -O0 with address sanitizers on my desktop The trouble with this criterion is that it fundamentally alters the language from the ground-up: it forces you to optimize the source code structure for this too, not just run-time performance. Specifically, one of the core strengths of C++ is that no matter how many (practical) levels of wrapping and forwardi…
Presumably they still optimize and write for -O3, just that they run far slower version.
Without any manual optimization targeting O0.
(main negative is that missing performance degradation appearing in 03 ut not O0 may be harder to notice)
Re: Why use old computers and operating systems?
#105>I think the only solution is to stop expecting every computer to be general-purpose Why? Computers are general purpose. The software we put on computers may have specific purposes, but computers are general purpose. As for 'computer powered appliances' plenty of those exist and the general trend does seem to be to abstract the computer away inside some kind of locked down appliance. I hope general purpose computers…
I think a lot of people get turned off from general purpose computers because they are using proprietary operating systems and software that mitigate the "general purpose" aspect. The most "general purpose" software most people interact with is a browser.
It really annoys me how wonderful a computer in your pocket should be, and then how little is permitted due to apple restrictions.
I'm not talking about apple turning down fart apps, I'm talking about the basic ability to write and run your own code without asking apple permission.
Re: Why use old computers and operating systems?
#106One thing about old computers is how hackable the hardware is. On old PCs, things like parallel ports, serial ports, joysticks and so on are trivially easy to interface to and have great performance. Even further back, generating and measuring periods in the sub-microsecond range was just a quick bit of assembler on 4MHZ Z80's back in the early 80's. Although that sort of hacking is still very possible now, it's the province of things like PICs, Arduino's and Pi's which are all relatively specialised and require far more effort to get started with than sticking a couple of wires in a parallel port and doing an outportb().
Re: Why use old computers and operating systems?
#107Earlier quoted context omitted.
How many of those are old enough that they can't download firefox? (I realize this sounds snobby. I'm mostly just actually curious how much that is a viable option)
About years ago I saw a phone that could no longer connect to Play Store, probably because of lacking support for newer TLS versions. It was a rebranded Chinese phone, with no firmware update available. I managed to install Firefox and a couple of apps by transferring the APKs from my phone using Bluetooth, but it's a popular brand in my country and I'm sure a lot of people are in the same situation.
I actually dug out my old Nexus One last week because I had an idea for a project and yeah, can't do anything on that phone anymore. It still connects to my WiFi, but it can't open Google play any more and of course there are no updates available to make it work. Most websites don't open in the browser.
Funnily enough, Google maps still work. I'm impressed that their APIs have remained the same for a very long time now.
And yes, I can probably still install APKs manually or find a custom firmware with more modern version of Android where Google play will work. But that requires certain amount of skill and time, so for most owners this phone is only slightly more functional than a dumbphone.
Re: Why use old computers and operating systems?
#108A reason to use old computers that I don't see mentioned here has to do with accessibility. People in the US usually have current hardware such as the latest Mac laptop, but that is not the case in all other countries. Current hardware is a bit of a luxury that we don't fully appreciate. I have an open source project with global users, and one person in Mexico contacted me looking for help. He was trying to create 3D…
A lot of young people use hand-me-down computers, even in developed countries.
I was just playing Unreal Tournament with the homestay family children, on WinXP. One of their friends asked "Is this like Fornite?" and I felt like I'm getting old. I was there when UT was new! Fornite runs on the Unreal Engine!
On that note though, it would be really great to have a new game for Windows XP.
Re: Why use old computers and operating systems?
#109At Brown U.'s semiconductor fab cleanroom we had a Windows 3.1 PC controlling our plasma etching machine. One day we opened up its case--not a speck of visible dust despite operating continuously since the early 90's!
Isn't that expected, given it was operating in a cleanroom?
Re: Why use old computers and operating systems?
#110Earlier quoted context omitted.
my personal rule of thumb is that my software must be useable at -O0 with address sanitizers on my desktop - so far that has meant that at -O3 it stays useable on raspberry pi-3 level hardware. A few months ago I tried to make a build which targetted ivybridge-level CPUs, it took no more than one day for a few users to report that it didn't work on their machines, turns out a lot of people still rock some old AMD Phe…
I've still got some SandyBridge-era computers running.
Likewise. A dual C2Q Mac Pro, Nehalem and Westmere Xeons, and a Sandy Bridge NAS. Newest non-embedded x86 in the house is probably my 2017 MacBook Air. I did buy an M1 Mac, but why would I replace our perfectly performant desktops that we only need occasionally for e.g. CAD or video editing or whatever when they still work absolutely fine? It's not a lack of money, it's a question of priorities. I have yet to find the killer app that's going to force my hand. It seems likely that hardware failure will get them first.