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Ask HN: How to build empathy?

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Re: Ask HN: How to build empathy?

#101

Post by _zamorano_ »

And how about too empathic people?

They're never talked about, and seem like they don't exist... but they do, and usually lead miserable lifes due to their insistence in an excessive identification with others people problems.

They look bland, and most don't take them seriously, and sometimes are the laughing stock... and to be honest, I don't think society is to blame, as they don't fall near the middle of the normalcy curve... but they do have a problem.

Anyway, they're out of luck. Not in the fashionable side of the victim mentality of nowadays society.

Re: Ask HN: How to build empathy?

#103

Post by kayodelycaon »

ironmagma wrote: post #68
andrei_says_ wrote: post #67

Use the nonviolent communication model: - recognize that anything we do is a strategy to meet one or more universal basic human needs which we do not control (e.g. safety, to matter, contribution, respect, play, sexual expression etc.) - recognize that how we do things depends on our experience and conditioning. Many of the strategies we have are suboptimal, or harmful, or meet some needs at the expense of others - a…

Not everything humans do is based on a need. We are somewhat random as well and have wants that aren’t backed by anything more than the want itself. The essentialism above reminds me of Robert California’s “all life is sex” motto.

The “need” thing is weird because it’s a rather vague term.

It would be better to say every conversation has some kind of purpose. The purpose could be as simple as wanting to have a conversation. The purpose determines how you approach the conversation.

Before anyone throws up their hands about overthinking things, that’s the point. It’s taking what’s an implicit, emotional process and making it an explicit, logical one. Over time, this way of thinking becomes automatic, turning it into an implicit, emotional process.

Think of nonviolent communication as retraining your social skills. The same as any martial art, you have to unlearn what you think you know and start with the basics.

For myself, I learned all of my social skills this way. I lack the emotional machinery required to learn social skills the implicit way. I’m constantly updating my rules to adjust for people I can’t predict.

Re: Ask HN: How to build empathy?

#104

Post by nullserver »

stonecraftwolf wrote: post #64
zo7 wrote: post #32

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Adding to this, there is a specific kind of meditation you could try called metta (aka loving-kindness) where you focus on cultivating benevolence towards yourself and all things. During a session you follow a similar sequence: first focus on cultivating loving-kindness towards yourself (since this is the base from where empathy grows) then you gradually extend it to people you love out to people who you have difficu…

I would add that this can be extremely challenging (and possibly triggering) for people who had traumatic childhoods. In those cases it is best to start with loving compassion towards a beloved pet, for example — something simpler, that is not so emotionally charged. Either way the metta instruction I’ve encountered has often failed because it failed to emphasize the sensation of emotion. It’s not lying there thinkin…

Can confirm. Was very empathetic towards others.

Repeated tragedies, pain and abuse can make you lose most or even all empathy. Even as an adult.

I have some back now, but nothing like I used to be.

Someone at work was very sad the other day, and I actually felt a little bad for them. First time in several years I felt anything at all. Hopefully get more back.

Re: Ask HN: How to build empathy?

#105

Post by nullserver »

cushychicken wrote: post #59
jugjug wrote: post #10

I use two complementing strategies: - Developing empathy towards myself first, that is, being able to observe feelings that arise within me and then being able to accept these feelings as they are. I have found this to be very relieving. A technique that helped me was meditation; training the mind like a muscle to be able to observe & recognize feelings. - Turning this outwards to others, the works of Marshall Rosenb…

Big fan of nonviolent communication. It's a great framework for telling folks that you feel wronged by their behavior.

Be mindful of how far you go with this. If they have empathy they will feel bad. Some people absolutely will take advantage of this to control them.

Re: Ask HN: How to build empathy?

#106

Post by ironmagma »

kayodelycaon wrote: post #103
ironmagma wrote: post #68

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not everything humans do is based on a need. We are somewhat random as well and have wants that aren’t backed by anything more than the want itself. The essentialism above reminds me of Robert California’s “all life is sex” motto.

The “need” thing is weird because it’s a rather vague term. It would be better to say every conversation has some kind of purpose. The purpose could be as simple as wanting to have a conversation. The purpose determines how you approach the conversation. Before anyone throws up their hands about overthinking things, that’s the point. It’s taking what’s an implicit, emotional process and making it an explicit, logical…

> I’m constantly updating my rules to adjust for people I can’t predict.

But that is the implicit way. Everyone builds their psyche in response to the stimuli they encounter. There is value in building a system for yourself, but there is also danger in believing that the system is itself an answer. Build the system for yourself in the wrong way and you can end up with a severe psychosis. I think it’s better if we acknowledge that everyone is responsible for each other instead of peddling these self help ideas like “nonviolent communication” which are ultimately about selling books.

Re: Ask HN: How to build empathy?

#107

Post by grawprog »

>How did you develop your listening skill?

I'm not sure...I've always enjoyed listening to people's lives. Everybody's life is totally different than mine. Everybody's experiences are different than mine. By listening, I'm exposed to things in the world I would never be otherwise. Both good and bad...but still.

>How to be more empathetic?

It might seem cliché but, put yourself in their shoes. Imagine yourself going through the things they're telling you. Imagine how you'd feel. Not what you'd do to solve the problem, just how it would affect you emotionally as it happened.

>What common failure modes do you hit in your relationships as a low empathy person?

>How do you avoid them?

I don't know when to shut the fuck up. People don't always want to hear solutions, they don't want to hear about what could have been done or anything at all sometimes. Despite best intentions, sometimes the best thing you can do, to put it bluntly, is shut the fuck up. Resist the temptation to give advice or opinions, just listen and acknowledge. That part can be hard though.

Re: Ask HN: How to build empathy?

#108

Post by alexashka »

ironmagma wrote: post #68
andrei_says_ wrote: post #67

Use the nonviolent communication model: - recognize that anything we do is a strategy to meet one or more universal basic human needs which we do not control (e.g. safety, to matter, contribution, respect, play, sexual expression etc.) - recognize that how we do things depends on our experience and conditioning. Many of the strategies we have are suboptimal, or harmful, or meet some needs at the expense of others - a…

Not everything humans do is based on a need. We are somewhat random as well and have wants that aren’t backed by anything more than the want itself. The essentialism above reminds me of Robert California’s “all life is sex” motto.

You're using your definition of 'need' to point out that it doesn't fit into what the parent has said.

You're right, your definition doesn't fit, his definition fits perfectly. Words have multiple meanings.

Re: Ask HN: How to build empathy?

#109

Post by ironmagma »

alexashka wrote: post #108
ironmagma wrote: post #68

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not everything humans do is based on a need. We are somewhat random as well and have wants that aren’t backed by anything more than the want itself. The essentialism above reminds me of Robert California’s “all life is sex” motto.

You're using your definition of 'need' to point out that it doesn't fit into what the parent has said. You're right, your definition doesn't fit, his definition fits perfectly. Words have multiple meanings.

Well if you instead define a need as a want, then of course it makes sense, but that is because it’s tautological. “People do things because they want to do them.” That’s hardly an insight.

Re: Ask HN: How to build empathy?

#110

Post by yarcob »

What helped me was to start with the assumption that the other person is just as intelligent as myself.

The worst is when you start making suggestions after listening to two sentences. If you assume that the other person is as intelligent as you are, then something you came up with after two minutes of listening is not useful -- they have probably considered this already.

It's different from your job, because at work you probably are a specialist and it's possible you know the solution after two sentences.

But for the problems we face in everyday life it's not so easy -- there usually are no easy solutions, and most people have a similar amount of experience.

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