“Follow the Science” Is a Cop-Out • Hacker News Board

Re: “Follow the Science” Is a Cop-Out

#21

Post by BoiledCabbage » Sat, Mar 20, 2021, 7:37 PM UTC

> In January 2020, when the first cases of what would later be dubbed Covid-19 were discovered on American soil, state and city governments were charged with managing the crisis before it was too late. But at precisely the time for acting, when the virus was here but had not yet spread widely, nearly every political institution in America that bore responsibility — including various bureaus of public health — claimed that there wasn’t enough evidence to do anything. And when it was clear that they had waited too long, they denied responsibility and placed the blame elsewhere.

This article manages to blame any and every politician from the other party, while somehow not once mentioning the single politician most responsible for ignoring the crisis, the one that set the tone for the entire country and downplayed the risk of the virus even months after it was obvious.

The author wants to write an article about how impactful the virus was, how terrible the politicians were and yet tries to find a way to do so, and won't acknowledge the source of the problem?

How in the world is this even upvoted on HN? It's pure partisan drivel.

Unfortunately I think I'm coming to an understanding of the state of current politics. At this point, it seems clear one party is in consistent denial denial of reality and absolution of any and all responsibility of their party. No the other party isn't innocent, but the disparity is shocking.

It began with denying where a president was born, then continued into belief of QAnon conspiracy, denial of covid, and now denial of any responsibility for that denial, next denial of vote results. It's legitimately concerning.

The current media landscape plays a large part in this - creating these reality distortion fields and allowing people to remain in them for everything. 20 years ago I could disagree with people on what's most important, what's best to do, prioritization, but we agreed on basic facts. But now any inconvenient fact is just summarily dismissed as false and ignored. This is not sustainable.

But there are too many people in positions of power who would lose it if that happened, and too many people that would have to face uncomfortable truths that they were duped. Two things that psychologically and from human nature rarely happen.

30% of the party believes in the core of QAnon. How do you even have a functioning country with that?

https://www.jpost.com/american-politics/nearly-30-percent-of...

Re: “Follow the Science” Is a Cop-Out

#22

Post by ironmagma » Sat, Mar 20, 2021, 7:46 PM UTC

mannykannot wrote: post #20

ironmagma wrote: post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

We have plenty of science, hundreds if not thousands of years’ of scientific evidence, that solid objects stop particles. A mask in front of the face when there is an unknown disease is simply common sense, basic physics to be more precise. To say that you need hindsight to make this judgment is ludicrous. The only (legitimate) reason you would not want to encourage mask wearing is if there was some way the mask coul…

Blocking particles does not look like a solution unless you know what is causing a given disease. Medieval practitioners might have had some sort of intuition that this might be effective, but it was at most one idea among many mostly false ones, it dd not have any empirical support, and it did not translate into effective prophylaxis. Like I said, you are proposing alternative science-based policies, which does not…

Again, this goes back to a tried and true principle, “err on the side of caution.” It’s true that masks don’t look like a solution unless you know that it’s a disease spread by the air. That is why you in the beginning adopt all manner of protections: handwashing, distancing, cleaning surfaces, wearing masks. None of this has to do with “alternative science,” whatever that refers to.

Re: “Follow the Science” Is a Cop-Out

#23

Post by wisemanwillhear » Sat, Mar 20, 2021, 7:46 PM UTC

> The “science” that politicians have claimed to follow rarely resembles the centuries-old process of making informed guesses, testing hypotheses, assembling data, and asking new questions in an effort to teeter toward the truth.

Speaking to this in the broadest context... Even with that I wish we would acknowledge that the science can only give us a certain amount of knowledge. It does not give us the wisdom to know how to make right decisions as that involves evaluating competing values that science cannot address. Ultimately, the values of those in leadership (and to some extent the values of the majority in democracies) dominate the values of other people and can discriminate against (or even oppress) those who are not in power.

Re: “Follow the Science” Is a Cop-Out

#24

Post by ppf » Sat, Mar 20, 2021, 8:05 PM UTC

"The Science" is the new state-sponsored oppressive religion.

The parallels write themselves - only a few are worthy to approach "The Science", and we must trust that their interpretation of the mysterious writings is correct. As well as that, we must obey, for the good of all, or face public ridicule and be shunned as dangerous.

Re: “Follow the Science” Is a Cop-Out

#25

Post by duxup » Sat, Mar 20, 2021, 8:06 PM UTC

convery wrote: post #11

Indeed, people (especially politicians) seem really afraid to simply say "we don't know". Rather appeal to science as an authority that everyone agrees on. Especially when it comes to large topics like climate-change or pandemics, scientists dedicate their lives to learn about a small part; yet somehow all scientists are in agreement on whatever someone posted on social media or what a politician wants to do.

I feel like if you paid close attention you heard / understood that this was a new virus and nobody was sure of much.

Re: “Follow the Science” Is a Cop-Out

#26

Post by jimmygrapes » Sat, Mar 20, 2021, 8:11 PM UTC

BoiledCabbage wrote: post #21

> In January 2020, when the first cases of what would later be dubbed Covid-19 were discovered on American soil, state and city governments were charged with managing the crisis before it was too late. But at precisely the time for acting, when the virus was here but had not yet spread widely, nearly every political institution in America that bore responsibility — including various bureaus of public health — claimed…

The media bubble has got to you as well my friend. You are othering huge swaths of society based on inaccurate and incomplete information, and I'd venture that even when presented with additional information that contradicts your assumptions, your opinion wouldn't change.

Re: “Follow the Science” Is a Cop-Out

#27

Post by [deleted] » Sat, Mar 20, 2021, 8:13 PM UTC

ketamine__ wrote: post #16

kwertyoowiyop wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Given the reaction when Michelle Obama suggested kids eat more vegetables, you can only guess how many heads would explode if EXERCISE was mentioned!

Fauci has mentioned eating a healthy diet. But most people consider their diets healthy so that doesn't help. Anyway, this was obviously a point glossed over by the pro maskers.

[deleted]

Re: “Follow the Science” Is a Cop-Out

#28

Post by AzzieElbab » Sat, Mar 20, 2021, 8:22 PM UTC

PopGreene wrote: post #14

Makes the argument that politicians dropped the ball. Mentions Cuomo and di Blasio by name, but oddly omits to mention deSantis, Abbott, any other conservative governors, nor the the politician best equipped to address the crisis: Trump.

Not that Abbot and deSantis done anything particularly smart wrt to COVID, but at the very least they both avoided doing something deadly stupid like sending COVID patients to nursing homes

Re: “Follow the Science” Is a Cop-Out

#29

Post by barney54 » Sat, Mar 20, 2021, 8:27 PM UTC

bob_roberts wrote: post #15

reese_john wrote: post #3

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> What would author suggest in March last year? What would be a better option? The technocratic apparatus might have been deployed toward a strategy of creative mitigation — say, mass manufacturing of N95 masks, test kits mailed to every American, testing at a large-enough scale to isolate only the actually infected instead of everyone. Instead, our leaders decided to indefinitely maintain crippling restrictions on i…

> our leaders In the United States at least, that's a bit of a cop out. Lockdowns were applied at the local level and were originally meant to buy time and prevent hospitals from being overwhelmed. The Federal government could have then stepped in with mass manufacturing of masks and wide-scale testing. But Trump was reluctant to use the Defense Production Act, and Jared Kushner was put in charge of coordinating PPE…

Trump did use the Defense Production Act for ventilators. But ventilators didn’t turn out to be effective.

Re: “Follow the Science” Is a Cop-Out

#30

Post by donovanian » Sat, Mar 20, 2021, 8:29 PM UTC

ketamine__ wrote: post #16

kwertyoowiyop wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Given the reaction when Michelle Obama suggested kids eat more vegetables, you can only guess how many heads would explode if EXERCISE was mentioned!

Fauci has mentioned eating a healthy diet. But most people consider their diets healthy so that doesn't help. Anyway, this was obviously a point glossed over by the pro maskers.

Fauci is a mess honestly. He's been all over the map and revealed he's in the business of noble lies in the interest of policy objectives - which only backfires and erodes public trust.

Were the establishment smart, they'd have no problem with vaccination hesitancy by saying that after vaccination you can resume normal life and ditch the masks. Instead it's been the outrageous message of "nothing will change."

You only have to see how the establishment has handled the obesity epidemic in the US to see whether any of their supposed intelligence and expertise accomplishes anything.