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Japanese man leaves horrible job, gets horrible letter from the company

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Re: Japanese man leaves horrible job, gets horrible letter from the company

#41
post #6

The article mentions _two_ instance of people hiring somebody to quit a job on their own behalf - what? I know there are some Japanophiles here on HN - can somebody explain what that's all about?

Other people have covered this at length already but I figured I could toss in my 2p.

The term black company is thrown around with varying levels of severity but "actual" black companies like the one being described here aren't just shitty companies to work for, they are straight up abusive.

With these types of companies you'll be expected to be at work before your boss arrives and leave work after your boss leaves. This applies for everyone including leadership all the way up to the top which results in ground level employees being forced to arrive very early and work until long after the end of the day all the while receiving no overtime.

In the cases where you do get off early, it's normally because of "mandatory fun" aka going to an izakaya (basically a bar with isolated or semi isolated rooms), pouring drinks for everyone senior to you, and drinking copious amounts of alcohol late into the night. Of course not drinking at pace with your seniors is varying levels of "disrespectful".

On top of this, the less senior you are, the more toxic BS you have to put up with.

Leadership (including more senior members who aren't actually your boss) can just push off work onto you and it's your fault if it doesn't get done.

The least senior woman will often be expected to act like a waitress and pour drinks at meetings largely regardless of their status.

On the worse end of things, these companies if you consider leaving have no qualms threatening to badmouth you/make you unhireable to the other companies in the industry in the area. Alternatively or even at the same time they often attempt to guilt you and turn your coworkers/friends against you with some variation of "you leaving is going to make your coworkers suffer" or "you are trying to destroy the company and you'll be responsible when your friends are unemployed". Of course this is varying levels of successful at preventing you from getting a job however it's near textbook abusive behaviour to keep you from leaving.

TLDR: Black company is used with varying levels of accuracy but true black companies are closer to a corporate personification of an abusive spouse than just being a shitty company to work for. They'll try to cut off lifelines (aka connections outside your work) and replace your identity with a dependency on your work by consuming all your time and forcing you to spend your little "free time" with your bosses and coworkers. From here any attempt to leave is met with standard abusive rhetoric.

Because of just how abusive these companies are, it's preferable to pay someone to resign for you so that they can't bully you into staying or even intimidate you into backing out from resigning before you actually enter the building. Once you hire them it's done and you can mentally mark the action as "complete" and prevent yourself from backing out.

Re: Japanese man leaves horrible job, gets horrible letter from the company

#42
post #25

How could a company conduct itself in such a way, and still expect to retain a fruitful business? As someone from europe, I sometimes don't know what to think of japanese work culture from stories like these. Regardless if it's real, I often feel as if I'm missing a lot of context.

There are no horrible workplaces in Europe?

Of course they are, but when you quit, it's you showing them the middle finger, not them trying to screw you over (unless they still owe you money, but cours there side with the workers usually... tbh. even too much sometimes).

Re: Japanese man leaves horrible job, gets horrible letter from the company

#43
post #38
post #35

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In Germany, yes.[0] Aside from that, in Germany it's a common practice to get an Arbeitszeugniss. It's essentially a transcript from your employer stating how you performed while on the job. By law it's has to be formulated to be positive about the employee. Because of this, you often have to read between the lines to understand the actual meaning of the transcript. [0] http://legaldb.freemedia.at/legal-database/germ…

Doesn't fix the problem though in case you have a bad manager. They will just be more subtle with their message.

Yes, there are common phrases used as codes. For example "made a highly competent job" -> very good; "made a very competent job" -> good; "made a compentent job" -> mediocre; "always aimed to make a competent job" -> really bad

Re: Japanese man leaves horrible job, gets horrible letter from the company

#44
Adjacent: I found this part of the article particularly interesting:

“People-rental services are fairly common in Japan, where you can rent anyone from a middle-aged man to give you life advice, to someone to become friends with your spouse to see if they’re cheating on you.”

Re: Japanese man leaves horrible job, gets horrible letter from the company

#45
post #25

How could a company conduct itself in such a way, and still expect to retain a fruitful business? As someone from europe, I sometimes don't know what to think of japanese work culture from stories like these. Regardless if it's real, I often feel as if I'm missing a lot of context.

I'm not sure if black companies really suffer from a lack of business. AFAIK, Watami is still well in business despite being awarded the black company of the year award multiple times. They had a 26-year-old employee kill herself two months after joining the company with something like 140 hours of overtime. I think they also had an infamous ad on their website where a man with kind of worrying look to him was praising working for the company (https://livedoor.blogimg.jp/anico_bin/imgs/e/5/e5dbf3ca.jpg). I remember when Akiba's Trip the Animation actually decided to parody that particular ad when they had an episode about black companies (https://twitter.com/chocochip1126/status/832183431819784192).

Re: Japanese man leaves horrible job, gets horrible letter from the company

#46
post #30

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There are no horrible workplaces in Europe?

I dare say that if such a letter were to be sent from a company in my country, it would be grounds for legal retaliation. Why would you put insults into writing, in official letters no less?

Sometimes they're just stupid. But I wouldn't be surprised if it was simply the case that it's what they do, it's what they've always done, and it sometimes works, so why stop now? And maybe it's normalized; maybe you go to the bar with some managers at other companies and they talk about doing the same things. If the average person in this situation just wants to move on, and get away as fast as possible, then maybe they're more prone to giving in to your demands than fighting back.

Probably mostly the first part.

Re: Japanese man leaves horrible job, gets horrible letter from the company

#47
post #22
post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's literally on archive.is, though. https://archive.is/oTX33 along with their twitter account: https://archive.is/VNQg8

Yes, I am not doubting that the tweet was made by that (now nonexistent) Twitter account, but the authenticity of the letter.

Then why bring up their deleted account?

Clearly, enough people from Japan thought it was real -- so whether this specific case is or is not real, the general atmosphere in Japan is such that they find it likely enough to be real, which by itself is worth reporting on.

Re: Japanese man leaves horrible job, gets horrible letter from the company

#48

Adjacent: I found this part of the article particularly interesting: “People-rental services are fairly common in Japan, where you can rent anyone from a middle-aged man to give you life advice, to someone to become friends with your spouse to see if they’re cheating on you.”

I’m not sure if it’s actually common or just over represented by the media. Anyone care to comment?

Re: Japanese man leaves horrible job, gets horrible letter from the company

#50
post #9
post #6

The article mentions _two_ instance of people hiring somebody to quit a job on their own behalf - what? I know there are some Japanophiles here on HN - can somebody explain what that's all about?

Here in the US you can hire a broker to negotiate with a car dealer for you. This is because car negotiations are tedious, uncomfortable, and full of pitfalls and the broker is an expert who can handle it the best possible way (for a fee). This is probably the same sort of thing, an expert quitter can turn in your resignation and wont won’t be enticed/coerced to take it back

OT, but maybe useful for some people here: AAA has (had? It’s been a while.) an under-publicized car-purchasing program where they negotiate a small fixed markup for members. It was great when I used it, least stressful purchase of my life.
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