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Safari is now probably the influential wild card browser for user privacy

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251–260 of 329 posts

Re: Safari is now probably the influential wild card browser for user privacy

#251
post #92

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The answer is to make the nice things and force Apple to implement them lest its user feel left behind.

I agree with the sentiment, but the real result of that would have sick people punished for the wrong choice of phone.

Or you just send them a text?

Re: Safari is now probably the influential wild card browser for user privacy

#252
post #158

I love Safari as a browser, but I hate the fact that it neuters the web and makes it feel much less powerful. Web Bluetooth and webUSB are ignored by Safari and unsupported. Notification support is lacking last I checked. No PWA functionality to speak of and webNFC won’t be added. Extensions are lacking largely due to being basically native apps that bring with them all the cost and overhead of being such. As a brows…

On one hand you have people complaining Chrome kills their batteries and on the other you want to have a browser that does push notifications, Bluetooth and usb. I want my browser to be fast and light. These complaints seem to come more from companies wanting to save money and developers too lazy to develop native apps. I don’t want to load a 200Mb progressive web app that goes through 20 layers of abstraction to sho…

Nailed it - basically everyone here saying safari should do these things is app devs vs a ton of people going nope no thank you I don’t want that

Re: Safari is now probably the influential wild card browser for user privacy

#253
post #239

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The difference, of course, is that if I message someone about an iPhone in messages.app, I'm not inundated with "targeted" ads for phones everywhere I go. Or, if I'm talking to someone about a recipe, my devices don't suddenly start displaying recipes (looking at you, Echo). Anonymized analytics, the type that Apple are informing you about in that document, are fine. Searching the App Store for a productivity app and…

Displaying real-time targeted ads (1) isn't Apple Business for sure. Selling you health data to health insurance companies (2) fits their strategy much more, and by accepting their privacy policy, you allowed them to do it. I don't consider (2) less harmful than (1).

Got any evidence, tangible or otherwise, of (2)?

Re: Safari is now probably the influential wild card browser for user privacy

#254

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Your [1] is apparently not public or "does not exist". It's possible I was confused by Microsoft's horrible titling scheme, as I would assume a guy who goes by "Principal Program Manager, Microsoft Edge", Eric Lawrence, is well-placed in the org, especially since he's quoted in every major article around every new Edge news: https://www.theverge.com/2019/5/6/18527550/microsoft-chromiu... It is true Microsoft ported s…

Hmm maybe I can see Rajesh's LinkedIn when I log in because I'm some number of degrees away from him. Or maybe just logging in is enough. Anyway, you can search the web for him if you want to see that he has indeed been at Microsoft a long time (nearly 25 years now). As for Eric Lawrence, if Eric gets quoted a lot that's probably because he wrote the first versions of Fiddler, the debugging localhost proxy that many…

Program managers control products more than than people managers usually. And principal is high enough to run a product.

Several pages say Sundaram's title is Technical Fellow and VP of Engineering. I assume you know what you're talking about. But you can't blame people for thinking it's an engineering role only.

Re: Safari is now probably the influential wild card browser for user privacy

#255

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yeah, having to click no all the time on desktop Safari is terrible. Also websites have realized that I am going to click No in the browser, so now they popup first asking if I want to allow push notifications in JavaScript so when I click no, they can ask me again later, vs if they popped up the browser and got a "No" there they could never ask me again.

I wish developers could get it through their skulls. I don’t want your notifications. Your app is not important enough that I’m willing to be interrupted by you. The lack of notifications is a desired feature. Please stop using notifications. It is almost always a pathetic attempt to try to “drive engagement” to your app. If I want to run your app I will run it. You don’t have to nudge me into it. The world would be…

So what. You're not representing everybody. Some people do want to receive the notifications.

Re: Safari is now probably the influential wild card browser for user privacy

#256

I love Safari as a browser, but I hate the fact that it neuters the web and makes it feel much less powerful. Web Bluetooth and webUSB are ignored by Safari and unsupported. Notification support is lacking last I checked. No PWA functionality to speak of and webNFC won’t be added. Extensions are lacking largely due to being basically native apps that bring with them all the cost and overhead of being such. As a brows…

Thanks, you just said what I was going to comment on.

One additional thing: over use of devices is also a problem. Apple tracks use for you and I find the weekly reports useful. Apple does not need us to be addicted to social media and marginally useful stuff on the web, their business model doesn’t require it.

I don’t want many apps on my devices and I don’t want every web site to effectively be an app on my device. If I do spend time on a digital device, I either want to be doing something useful, or working on a book project that hopefully some people might find useful. It takes some care to not waste time, and since I am approaching my 70th birthday, I have stronger feelings about not wasting time than I had when I was younger.

Re: Safari is now probably the influential wild card browser for user privacy

#257
post #98

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why should a web browser be able to send notifications? Why are we overloading web browsers to do more and more things? I get that transferring data over the internet is king, but surely we can devise better user interfaces than bloated browsers, etc?

Web browsers are essentially an inner platform now. Instead of taking the time to develop native apps, or even to write using cross-platform frameworks, developers prefer to trade performance/security/privacy for developer time. It's really just an acceleration of a trend that has been going on for decades (Wirth's Law) but Web 2.0 is hip and cool. You're not writing some lumbering dog of a Java application (write on…

> the web makes it far easier to invade privacy and deploy dark patterns, while that behavior typically is checked by the app store

Disagree. One reason sites want me to use their app is because I can’t block trackers. I wont use native apps if there is a web alternative BECAUSE i value privacy.

Re: Safari is now probably the influential wild card browser for user privacy

#258
post #200

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The more I see posts like this that complain about other browsers lacking features and essentially encouraging the "Google-isation" of browsers, the more convinced I am of the power of Google's gigantic monopoly-enhancing propaganda-machine. Firefox unfortunately has no choice but to be dragged along by Google.

ChromeOS has won, Safari is the only one left standing on the way that actually matters. Firefox as much as I love it, and has been my main browser linage since the Netscape days, doesn't stand a chance. Specially when everyone is now packaging Chrome as Electron, while praising it for GNU/Linux desktop apps.

I’ve never heard praise for electron, though that could be the crowd I associate with. Electron apps are the worst of both worlds; it’s so bad that I’m willing to open a web browser if electron is the other option.

Re: Safari is now probably the influential wild card browser for user privacy

#259
post #116

I love Safari as a browser, but I hate the fact that it neuters the web and makes it feel much less powerful. Web Bluetooth and webUSB are ignored by Safari and unsupported. Notification support is lacking last I checked. No PWA functionality to speak of and webNFC won’t be added. Extensions are lacking largely due to being basically native apps that bring with them all the cost and overhead of being such. As a brows…

Web Bluetooth and webUSB Hard to tell without looking if these things are real or a parody!

I’m pretty sure they exist only for Chromebooks. Nobody else supports them, nobody else ever will.

Re: Safari is now probably the influential wild card browser for user privacy

#260

> Conversely, if Safari refuses to implement some alleged 'feature', it becomes much less useful even if Chrome does implement it. How is Safari not implementing standards seen as a good thing? While I do acknowledge that there might be privacy concerns when it comes to Chrome, I do appreciate that Google is trying to push the Web forward, while Apple is trying to hold the Web back. Safari truly is the worst browser,…

Ohh and you are on Windows and wan't to debug something on Safari? Forget it. Yeah, this utterly baffles me. You'd think Apple, out of sheer self-interest, would offer some sort of "Safari for Developers" that runs on Windows/Linux. Even if it's some kind of klunky suboptimally-performant thing. Just make it really obvious in terms of it's branding and theming that it's devs-only.

Microsoft for instance offers free VM images for browser testing.
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