Howling in Unison: The Soviet Writers' Union • Hacker News Board

Re: Howling in Unison: The Soviet Writers' Union

#11

Post by varjag » Sat, Mar 20, 2021, 11:30 AM UTC

fgsunx wrote: post #9

varjag wrote: post #4

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I was also born in USSR and old enough for Komsomol when it disintegrated. Nope, it wasn't much similar to woke culture, mainly because it was rather rigid top-down command hierarchy of values. The current brands of values and socialist morals were rationalized in the Central Committee, then propagated through Republics committees, then oblasts and regions down to town administrations into individual organizations, f…

There are bottom-up movements like BLM, but mostly the woke culture is corporate and "elite" endorsed and therefore top-down. What the academic "elites" are trying to achieve is clear: The topics create work for the soft sciences and even after a potential revolution their jobs would be safe. What the corporations are expecting is less clear. They are doing well under a model of capitalism with a woke branding. A bit…

From what I gather it starts as grassroots and then the invisible hand reacts anticipating the social landscape change. You may lament this unprincipled capitalism but it was entirely not like that in USSR.

Re: Howling in Unison: The Soviet Writers' Union

#12

Post by Andrew_nenakhov » Sat, Mar 20, 2021, 11:32 AM UTC

dhoe wrote: post #7

Andrew_nenakhov wrote: post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I wasn't talking about how did these two systems come up with their values, but about how similar they are in enforcing them.

Gulag? Forced psychiatric internment?

I wouldn't rule out the possibility.

Re: Howling in Unison: The Soviet Writers' Union

#13

Post by TeMPOraL » Sat, Mar 20, 2021, 11:33 AM UTC

fgsunx wrote: post #9

varjag wrote: post #4

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I was also born in USSR and old enough for Komsomol when it disintegrated. Nope, it wasn't much similar to woke culture, mainly because it was rather rigid top-down command hierarchy of values. The current brands of values and socialist morals were rationalized in the Central Committee, then propagated through Republics committees, then oblasts and regions down to town administrations into individual organizations, f…

There are bottom-up movements like BLM, but mostly the woke culture is corporate and "elite" endorsed and therefore top-down. What the academic "elites" are trying to achieve is clear: The topics create work for the soft sciences and even after a potential revolution their jobs would be safe. What the corporations are expecting is less clear. They are doing well under a model of capitalism with a woke branding. A bit…

> What the corporations are expecting is less clear. They are doing well under a model of capitalism with a woke branding.

The market isn't unlike a heat engine - if there is a heat difference somewhere, it means there's energy to be extracted equilibrizing that difference. Corporations don't really care about what ideologies are in conflict in the society - they align themselves along the best value gradient and pump it for all it's worth.

In this particular case: lots of people respond to woke ideas, and those people tend to control important marketing amplifiers (Internet media), so being seen as woke is a profitable strategy. For the same reason, you also see a lot of environmental awareness undertones in marketing these days - people who care about it respond to it positively, people who don't care just ignore it, so it's a profitable move to be seen as environmentally conscious.

Re: Howling in Unison: The Soviet Writers' Union

#14

Post by neartheplain » Sat, Mar 20, 2021, 11:38 AM UTC

dhoe wrote: post #7

Andrew_nenakhov wrote: post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I wasn't talking about how did these two systems come up with their values, but about how similar they are in enforcing them.

Gulag? Forced psychiatric internment?

Remember the PBS lawyer who said Republican voters should have their children put in re-education camps?

https://apnews.com/article/donald-trump-entertainment-corona...

Re: Howling in Unison: The Soviet Writers' Union

#15

Post by keiferski » Sat, Mar 20, 2021, 12:05 PM UTC

One of the funniest writers I’ve come across is Daniil Kharms, who wrote absurdist short stories and children's books. He was a victim of the Soviet policies (no doubt influencing his own work) and unfortunately didn’t make it through WW2.

If you like dark absurdist humor, you’ll probably like his work. Here’s one example:

Because of her excessive curiosity, an old lady fell out of the window and smashed into the ground. Another old lady looked out of the window, staring down at the one who was smashed, but out of her excessive curiosity she also fell out of the window and smashed into the ground. Then the third old lady fell out of the window, then the fourth did, then the fifth. When the sixth old lady fell out of the window, I got bored watching them and went to Maltsev market where, they say, someone gave a woven shawl to a blind man.

https://web.archive.org/web/20040907075615/http://www.sevaj....

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Daniil_Kharms

Re: Howling in Unison: The Soviet Writers' Union

#16

Post by strogonoff » Sat, Mar 20, 2021, 12:29 PM UTC

TeMPOraL wrote: post #8

dhoe wrote: post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Gulag? Forced psychiatric internment?

Advancing in society by demonstrating your commitment to the proclaimed values, through ratting out your less committed neighbors, or even falsely accusing them of being less committed.

Do you think it makes a difference, though, if in one case the system was installed and enforced by a minority in a top-down fashion without general population having a say in it, whereas in the other it appears to be organically arising in society?

Re: Howling in Unison: The Soviet Writers' Union

#17

Post by toiletfuneral » Sat, Mar 20, 2021, 12:49 PM UTC

neartheplain wrote: post #14

dhoe wrote: post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Gulag? Forced psychiatric internment?

Remember the PBS lawyer who said Republican voters should have their children put in re-education camps? https://apnews.com/article/donald-trump-entertainment-corona...

I grew up in an extremely conservative family and they watch tucker Carlson and openly fantasize about shooing black protestors.

So I dunno man, be as mad at a shitty lib PBS lawyer as you want I guess, but only 1 side is gearing up

Re: Howling in Unison: The Soviet Writers' Union

#18

Post by JasonFruit » Sat, Mar 20, 2021, 12:57 PM UTC

strogonoff wrote: post #16

TeMPOraL wrote: post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Advancing in society by demonstrating your commitment to the proclaimed values, through ratting out your less committed neighbors, or even falsely accusing them of being less committed.

Do you think it makes a difference, though, if in one case the system was installed and enforced by a minority in a top-down fashion without general population having a say in it, whereas in the other it appears to be organically arising in society?

It may appear to you to be organically arising in society, but to many people, it seems to be actively encouraged by propaganda efforts — "anti-extremism training", "diversity training", and the like — and the embrace of those in power, whether governmental or private, even extending to asymmetrical enforcement of laws based on the wokeness of the violators.

Re: Howling in Unison: The Soviet Writers' Union

#19

Post by mc32 » Sat, Mar 20, 2021, 1:05 PM UTC

Andrew_nenakhov wrote: post #2

I was born in the USSR, and I have read a great deal about this period (and have read works of all writers mentioned), so i think i have a very clear pictire of how things were at that time... And that's why I'm very opposed to today's 'woke' culture, because it is so much alike the totalitarian USSR society that caused so much harm. Sure, some of the proclaimed values are different, but methods are almost the same.

To me one of the scariest things is Twitter wokeism.

It echoes Honeckers DDR. Neighbors and friends denouncing each other for minor transgressions. Some of it due to personal revenge, some of it to provide cover for their own shortcomings, some true believers.

Honecker did it for power and oppression. These people gleefully enlist voluntarily, attacking enemy and friends and each other to prove who the better dehumanized human is. Goddamit, it’s sad.

Re: Howling in Unison: The Soviet Writers' Union

#20

Post by Clewza313 » Sat, Mar 20, 2021, 1:12 PM UTC

>Since the party line often shifted, one could find oneself accused of errors that, at the time they were made, were not errors at all. The party constantly invented new mistakes, whether in ideas, practices, or phrases, so that one could never free oneself from the risk of humiliation. One sign of this sort of shame culture is the constant creation of new offenses, usually applied retroactively. No matter how many times the cadre manages to overcome his, he must always overcome them yet again.

This sounds quite relevant in 2020.