Earlier quoted context omitted.
- Cheap, high-quality, free-from-exploitation. Pick 2. Spare me the "Life is cheaper in the 3-world non-sense"
What do you propose? Don't hire from cheap places or pay them the same rate as expensive places? If companies pays the same as expensive places, why would they hire from cheaper places?
We bootstrapped to $11M in ARR
211–220 of 225 posts
Re: We bootstrapped to $11M in ARR
#212Earlier quoted context omitted.
What do you propose? Don't hire from cheap places or pay them the same rate as expensive places? If companies pays the same as expensive places, why would they hire from cheaper places?
See I'm actually interested in a good-faith discussion of this topic, not a screaming match. Does anyone who isn't going to scream have something to say about whether this is actually an exploitative practice?
We currently have a situation (we use cheaper labor in developing countries to make stuff more cheaply). Some take issue with this for various reasons like exploitation, depriving local labor force of work etc. I genuinely would like to hear some viable alternatives.
The common response is "just pay them more". But that doesn't work in most situations. So what do we do?
Re: We bootstrapped to $11M in ARR
#213Earlier quoted context omitted.
> You don’t own an iPhone I assume? No I dont. > You don’t own anything with an intel in it? No. > Do you not buy anything made overseas that pays workers less than 80% of some us based rate? This is all what I have bought in the last 12 months (besides food and rent and services) 2 used jeans 2 used cargo shorts 3 T-shirts (5 USD each) 10 pair of boxers (New, 3 USD each) 1 100 USD phone That's have been my total con…
that 100 USD phone was made by poor low paid people in a poor country
Re: We bootstrapped to $11M in ARR
#214Earlier quoted context omitted.
This is fascinating. Is your product b2b? How fast did you discard the 25 ideas? It sounde like you needed 3 month at least, so 8 years? What did you live on during that time? So in short:please tell me more
It's a consumer product. It is very draining. In today's world consumer don't want to pay for anything, unless they really want the product and they don't have a way to get it otherwise. Many users would use the product and then file chargebacks. Many users will go to any extend to get out of paying coming up with either sad stories, lies or threats. When it's a low cost, high volume product (5m+ paying customers ove…
Re: We bootstrapped to $11M in ARR
#215Earlier quoted context omitted.
It's a consumer product. It is very draining. In today's world consumer don't want to pay for anything, unless they really want the product and they don't have a way to get it otherwise. Many users would use the product and then file chargebacks. Many users will go to any extend to get out of paying coming up with either sad stories, lies or threats. When it's a low cost, high volume product (5m+ paying customers ove…
Thanks a lot. A few follow up question:so it is a physical product? Also are you located in the US? And last, since customer contact it is so draining, did you consider to spend one of the 20 M profit and outsoure customer service (or hire 10-20 people to take of that)?
I don't live in US.
We do have outsourced customer service. But still I have to be aware of what the customers are complaining about. In some cases people are filing frivolous complaints to government agencies which you have to respond to. With Saas, I would go after the bad actors. With consumers the number of bad actors is endless.
Re: We bootstrapped to $11M in ARR
#216Earlier quoted context omitted.
Thanks a lot. A few follow up question:so it is a physical product? Also are you located in the US? And last, since customer contact it is so draining, did you consider to spend one of the 20 M profit and outsoure customer service (or hire 10-20 people to take of that)?
It is a digital product. I don't live in US. We do have outsourced customer service. But still I have to be aware of what the customers are complaining about. In some cases people are filing frivolous complaints to government agencies which you have to respond to. With Saas, I would go after the bad actors. With consumers the number of bad actors is endless.
Re: We bootstrapped to $11M in ARR
#217Earlier quoted context omitted.
See I'm actually interested in a good-faith discussion of this topic, not a screaming match. Does anyone who isn't going to scream have something to say about whether this is actually an exploitative practice?
I would too. We currently have a situation (we use cheaper labor in developing countries to make stuff more cheaply). Some take issue with this for various reasons like exploitation, depriving local labor force of work etc. I genuinely would like to hear some viable alternatives. The common response is "just pay them more". But that doesn't work in most situations. So what do we do?
Re: We bootstrapped to $11M in ARR
#218Earlier quoted context omitted.
If you’re getting older and don’t have kids yet, would you recommend then not having kids at all or still having them anyway? Maybe it would be better to seek a young wife then if you plan to be ambitious?
All the questions you are asking are coming from your head and not your heart! With wife and kids you want to follow your heart as long as your head (life situation) can support it. If you would want to love your kids and be there for them, have them whenever you can. Nothing is guaranteed for anyone. Make your best case effort and love them from the bottom of your heart. Don't seek out wife like an agenda. That is a…
Re: We bootstrapped to $11M in ARR
#219Earlier quoted context omitted.
Congrats to you for finally succeeding! Just that your way of climbing doesn't sound quite fun. Spending 7 years working 14 hours a day, full of stress, and fail 20 times straight? That sounds like a recipe for disaster. I wonder how many people are doing the same things you were doing and are still not successful... I got a simple question, was it worth it and what would you change?
I love building products. The financial success was a side product. I should have qualified my statement about failures better. Current one: Financially successful for me. Another one: Financially successful but got screwed over. Another one: Was very successful with adoption, but timing got wrong and didn't become financially successful. 2 others: Moderate success but financially not successful. It was really tough,…
I'm too early to yet have regrets about pursuing this path, but I feel like it will inevitably get to me too and I try to think of ways I could have the cake and eat it too ( to some minimal extent). I don't yet think about family, it's not on my priority list at the moment (I'm thinking about starting it in my 40s and I accept the drawbacks), but there are some things I would like to get out of my personal life - preferably while still in my 20s, rather than 30s that I care about.
I'm sorry because this is going to be a long post. Please feel free to ignore it. I hope it contributes something to the discussion in general.
I'm thinking about 3 scenarios I could play out:
A) Pursue a niche desktop app idea that is a spin-off from an earlier failed product. It's the scratch your own itch thing, I have a new vision for the product. It would take 1 year to ship and 2 years from now in total to evaluate. Potential 100k - 1M / year revenue after years in business. This could be the type of business I could work hard at now, and spend a healthy 50h/week later to be still able to enjoy my life and enjoy playing the game. It's also realistic given my current resources. If it fails, I "lose" 2 years.
B) Pursue another spin-off idea, but this one is not niche, it's big and I know I may come off as naive - but I'm certain this is something that people will want. The challenge here is more in execution and competition (there's no other product like this on the market, and the demand is there). I'm a little guy now, so I could get squashed by more experienced players however, I may still pocket a million before going out of business. To get started with it, I would have to get a full time job asap (I have a dead end freelancing gig now), work 1 year and then live off savings. So it wouldn't see the light of day until at least 2024. This plan would also require 5+ years working at intense startup, sacrificing a lot - all these personal goals I care so much about.
c) Focus on the big idea, but delay it by 2 years to get some things off my personal bucket list. So I get full-time job by the end of 2021, 2022 - 2024 I focus mostly on personal life, while working and making savings (I may have 10h/week to spend on building the prototype / v1 - which is very very little, but over 3 years is always better than nothing). Then 2025, quit job, work 70h/week full-time on preparing the business, launch it in 2026 or 2027. If it fails, I still should have enough savings to pursue another idea. Or if someone beats me to market and there's no point, I can pursue another idea straight away. Yes, it's 5 years, so there are big chances someone gets there first, but even if they get there first, they wouldn't get like a mainstream market adoption in 5 years, so there would still be place for competition and different variants of the idea. The real danger here is that these 3 years of focus on personal life may throw me off the path, I may not be able to come back once I lose momentum, but I like to think I would have the discipline to do come back.
Currently I'm most inclined towards option C - it has some certainity about it. The business may fail, but there's a lot of certainity I will have logistics to pursue another idea. I can also get personal goals to some extent (unless the pandemic restrictions last too long). So it's potentially big reward, less sacrifice and risk.
I put some work into option A however, so it's hard to not think about it. Maybe it could be really good opportunity at having a lightweight business, that's also achievable given my current resources and experience. But it can still fail - and it's a subset of the bigger idea (as I mentioned earlier, both projects are spin off ideas from my first failed product).And if it fails, I can't work on the next business right away.
I guess I self-answered myself here. I'm only torn because if I want to go for option C, I had this plan to release A as open source and use it for my resume, I think it would help the job hunt a lot and allow me to negotiate a better salary, as well as flex product-building muscles. The logic for this, is I want a remote job, and while there are full time remote jobs offerrings within the niche I'm freelancing in - I think it may take me some 6 months to get a job like this - so I think, I could take this time to release the app as open source to 10x my resume and not leaving the job thing to luck.
So because I work on product A day to day, it's challenging to not view it as a business. It will be even more challenging when I complete it and willingly not give it a try to sell it (though I know selling it is like 5x more effort than building it, but still).
It would be helpful to get an outside view on these plans. Maybe each plan is dumb either way. The plan I had 3 years ago didn't pass reality test. I suppose it could be similar this time. What would you do? Try to have a shot at the simpler product and accepting a 2 year delay if it doesn't work out, or follow the long term plan and have a go at a much more ambitious product with a backup savings plan?
Re: We bootstrapped to $11M in ARR
#220Earlier quoted context omitted.
I love building products. The financial success was a side product. I should have qualified my statement about failures better. Current one: Financially successful for me. Another one: Financially successful but got screwed over. Another one: Was very successful with adoption, but timing got wrong and didn't become financially successful. 2 others: Moderate success but financially not successful. It was really tough,…
Thanks a lot for sharing your experience. I'm early on the path, still unsuccessful. I'm 25, I had one failed product. for 3 years, followed by 2 years of limbo and 1 year back in the game thanks to the pandemic - I love it, I like it a lot and I want to keep pushing it. I'm too early to yet have regrets about pursuing this path, but I feel like it will inevitably get to me too and I try to think of ways I could have…
Go through Naval's podcast "How to get rich". Listen it once a month for 4 months. Make notes and see how his suggestions apply to you. Focus on the things that you disagree with and understand why do you disagree with them.
Now on to my feedback:
You are worrying too much about big competitors getting you out of business or idea already launched. Unless your product has a very small market, there is always opportunities for new players. Looks at the instant messaging space over the time we have had IRC, MSN, Yahoo Messenger, Google Chat, Skype, WhatsApp, Telegram, Signal, Slack and there will be a lot more.
If an idea doesn't work out, you don't lose 2 years. You would have learnt a lot through this time. You are investing in your learning and capabilities.
Think of startup as a series of sprints. You sprint, strategize, sprint, strategize.
So my high level suggestion would be:
Start building what you want to build right now. Don't wait.
Don't think about doing startup in binary terms. Figure out which product you want to build next and try to find whatever time to make progress on it. During this phase if you have to sort out personal things do that. If you need to take a job to support finances do it. These are things that you have to take care of along the way. There will always be news stuff when you have taken care of the personal and finance part. Don't lose focus on your startup and keep chugging along.
If you get a job, make sure you don't use company hardware to build it. Make sure that there are no clauses which make products developed on your personal time as company property.