Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

Ghana will no longer sell cocoa to Switzerland

face2faceafrica.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

321–330 of 437 posts

Re: Ghana will no longer sell cocoa to Switzerland

#321

Post by [deleted] »

babesh wrote: post #238
audunw wrote: post #119

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I really think China is making a huge mistake actually. See how TSMC (Taiwan) and Samsung are free to buy ASMLs EUV machines, while China is blocked. Part of that is due to their rampant IP theft. Why sell machines to China if they're just going to copy them? China also messed up big time by enforcing their 1 child policy, and taking so long to open up and industrialize. They're far behind economically compared to wh…

The 1 child policy is probably a big issue but IP theft is partly how the US industrialized. The textile mills of the North that kicked off industrialization in the US was based off of IP stolen from Britain. In fact, many of the practices that the Chinese are using were also used by the Americans: smuggling plans, hiring key employees, tariffs, etc. https://www.realclearmarkets.com/articles/2018/07/30/ip_thef... ! h…

[deleted]

Re: Ghana will no longer sell cocoa to Switzerland

#322

Post by kiba »

mpoteat wrote: post #296
jkepler wrote: post #293

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Isn't the underlying problem here the idea of Intellectual Property doesn't really correspond to real property? If I have an ax I use to provide lumber to our town and you steal it physically from me, that's theft. But if you see my ax, understand how it works, and make your own to also cut lumber, is that really theft? Or is it net beneficial to the town, as now people have more cut lumber to choose from and perhaps…

The theory is that nobody will invest in e.g. researching how to build a complicated lumber cutting machine if they don't have protections against their competitor copying the results. Let's say this research costs 1 million dollars, and the company bankrolls this via a loan. They build it and are successful, and begin paying it off. Their competitor copies their idea, and exploits the fact that they have more capita…

So, under a zero protection scheme it is optimal to wait until your competitor invests in research, and then just steal it. Which is what happens on a geopolitical level where there is no feasible enforcement possible.

Is it such a bad thing? The United States did it in order to industrialize and I would say that's a good thing.

Re: Ghana will no longer sell cocoa to Switzerland

#323

Post by ClumsyPilot »

dahfizz wrote: post #212
dane-pgp wrote: post #203

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You're not allowed to break the speed limit even if you pay the fine. You are allowed to live in your apartment if you pay the demanded rent.

> You are allowed to live in your apartment if you pay the demanded rent. ding ding ding. Germany is allowed to build whatever pipelines they want, they just also might have to pay US trade sanctions. Without a threat of force, we are not forcing them to do anything.

that sentense doesn't even make sence, you don't 'pay' senctions

Re: Ghana will no longer sell cocoa to Switzerland

#324

Post by taurath »

m12k wrote: post #15

I'm reading the book The Divide at the moment. It makes the argument that it takes time and the right conditions to build up an industry - infrastructure needs to be built, education and a skilled labor pool with the necessary know-how as well. To begin with, a fledgling industry in a developing country cannot compete with those of already industrialized countries - these are already so effective that they can underc…

We’ve overthrown countries to protect that in the past. Developed countries honesty care little past having access to cheap goods, and any rhetoric that says otherwise needs to be proven in spades before it should be believed

Re: Ghana will no longer sell cocoa to Switzerland

#325

Post by agumonkey »

m12k wrote: post #15

I'm reading the book The Divide at the moment. It makes the argument that it takes time and the right conditions to build up an industry - infrastructure needs to be built, education and a skilled labor pool with the necessary know-how as well. To begin with, a fledgling industry in a developing country cannot compete with those of already industrialized countries - these are already so effective that they can underc…

this one https://www.jasonhickel.org/the-divide ?

Re: Ghana will no longer sell cocoa to Switzerland

#326

Post by 908B64B197 »

sandworm101 wrote: post #110
m12k wrote: post #15

I'm reading the book The Divide at the moment. It makes the argument that it takes time and the right conditions to build up an industry - infrastructure needs to be built, education and a skilled labor pool with the necessary know-how as well. To begin with, a fledgling industry in a developing country cannot compete with those of already industrialized countries - these are already so effective that they can underc…

>> a fledgling industry in a developing country cannot compete with those of already industrialized countries Except that often they do. With lower safety/environmental standards, lower wages, and lower expectations many "developing" countries can undercut the labor markets of developed countries, operating advanced manufacturing at far reduced costs. Many would ague that is exactly how China has risen to power. A re…

> Canada is heavily dependent on resource extraction and export. Canada is also a former colony. But would anyone here dare say Canada is a "developing" economy?

There's a big chunk of that country that can pretty much only be used for resource extraction. It's hard/impossible to grow anything there and pretty harsh to live there.

Re: Ghana will no longer sell cocoa to Switzerland

#327

Post by taurath »

killtimeatwork wrote: post #87
oblio wrote: post #27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> So the book argues that when developing countries are pressured into free trade agreements This should have been obvious since the Opium Wars and the Opening of Japan (see Commodore Matthew Perry). All developed countries are pro free trade for markets where they are strong and fiercely protectionist where they are not (or they consider those markets strategic priorities). I'm from Romania. Romania joined the EU in…

That's where China was smart I guess. They didn't sign any treaty which forced them into free trade or IP protection, but instead slowly allowed their industries to build up via IP theft and strong protectionism. Now they have giant companies on par with the West's. Whereas everyone who joined the EU in the decade of 2000 (and the Washington Consensus before that in the nineties) is now a pawn of the Western capital…

Sooner than that I’d even say. Even a China with GDP per capita 1/4 of the US would pass that bar I think. 1/2 the US would make quality of living comparable to the US, given how relatively bad the US is in QoL, if you assume an urbanized priority vs suburban

Re: Ghana will no longer sell cocoa to Switzerland

#328

Post by 908B64B197 »

jopsen wrote: post #84
oblio wrote: post #27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> So the book argues that when developing countries are pressured into free trade agreements This should have been obvious since the Opium Wars and the Opening of Japan (see Commodore Matthew Perry). All developed countries are pro free trade for markets where they are strong and fiercely protectionist where they are not (or they consider those markets strategic priorities). I'm from Romania. Romania joined the EU in…

Are those supermarkets really all that French or Belgian anymore? In practice, many large companies are owned by investors from all over the world looking for diversification.

Especially if the Romanian chains were bought with stocks.

Re: Ghana will no longer sell cocoa to Switzerland

#330

Post by jopsen »

leto_ii wrote: post #281
oblio wrote: post #27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> So the book argues that when developing countries are pressured into free trade agreements This should have been obvious since the Opium Wars and the Opening of Japan (see Commodore Matthew Perry). All developed countries are pro free trade for markets where they are strong and fiercely protectionist where they are not (or they consider those markets strategic priorities). I'm from Romania. Romania joined the EU in…

Also a Romanian here. My take is similar to yours, but I would go even further in saying that the 90s were even more catastrophic in terms of privatization and liberalization. Remember the 'shock therapy' years? Prices doubling every few months? Entire industries collapsing, prized factories being sold for scrap metal? Millions losing their jobs etc. - a lot of that stuff didn't have to happen that way. A lot of it w…

In the long run, free trade might not be a cost...

Adjusting to a new trade regiment will always be painful in the short term.

But many factories have moved labor intensive parts of production to eastern europe. Which wouldn't have been possible without the EU.

Post reply on HN