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Ghana will no longer sell cocoa to Switzerland

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Re: Ghana will no longer sell cocoa to Switzerland

#271

Post by Andrew_nenakhov »

fragmede wrote: post #259
babesh wrote: post #238

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The 1 child policy is probably a big issue but IP theft is partly how the US industrialized. The textile mills of the North that kicked off industrialization in the US was based off of IP stolen from Britain. In fact, many of the practices that the Chinese are using were also used by the Americans: smuggling plans, hiring key employees, tariffs, etc. https://www.realclearmarkets.com/articles/2018/07/30/ip_thef... ! h…

Even domestically, the reason Hollywood is the center of the film industry is because California was too far from the East coast for patents on moving picture cameras to be effectively enforced.

I thought it has more to do with weather, particularly ~300 sunny days per year.

Re: Ghana will no longer sell cocoa to Switzerland

#272

Post by devdas »

mpol wrote: post #164
fmajid wrote: post #65

Divine Chocolate is owned by Ghanaian cacao farmer: https://www.divinechocolate.com/products A much better model than the Fairtrade scam by which white-savior consultants jet off to poor countries to lecture locals whose backs their fat salaries are extracted off.

How i fairtrade a scam? Please be aware that the market of cocoa is not an easy one and not very transparent. The Dutch TV maker Teun van der Keuken was devastated by what he saw in Ivory Coast with a lot of child slavery going on. He started his own slavefree brand Tony Chocolonely, but even they have to admit they can not guarantee it is slavefree made, they can only strive for that. By the way, the people from Nes…

https://www.linkedin.com/pulse/fairtrade-scam-when-comes-pri...

https://www.forbes.com/sites/timworstall/2014/05/25/surprise...

Re: Ghana will no longer sell cocoa to Switzerland

#273

Post by csomar »

ArkanExplorer wrote: post #95
fogihujy wrote: post #62

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The first response will probably be for the chocolate producers to try to source the raw materials from other sources. This may or may not result in production ramping up elsewhere, or even new producers appearing as increased prices could make production financially viable in places it previously wasn't. Depending on how the markets react, prices may go up, and many of the really cheap brands could disappear from th…

CO2 tariffs: https://www.bcg.com/publications/2020/how-an-eu-carbon-borde... Ghana's electricity supply is 51% fossil fuel, whereas Switzerland is 2.5%. But its a lot easier to build solar plants in Accra than in Bern... I think that Europe is at a fundamental disadvantage over the medium/long-term, due to the burden of its welfare states. Its surprising to see that taxes over basically all categories are lower in Gh…

I think Switzerland is doing, overall, fine. France is the biggest abuser. They have a large bloated-welfare system that encourages people not to work; and they have a combination of impossibly high taxes and bureaucracy.

If you look at this list, you'll know something is horribly wrong with these economies: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_tax_reven...

The ones at the top are all European except for Cuba...

Re: Ghana will no longer sell cocoa to Switzerland

#274

Post by nix23 »

throwaway776543 wrote: post #163
audunw wrote: post #119

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I really think China is making a huge mistake actually. See how TSMC (Taiwan) and Samsung are free to buy ASMLs EUV machines, while China is blocked. Part of that is due to their rampant IP theft. Why sell machines to China if they're just going to copy them? China also messed up big time by enforcing their 1 child policy, and taking so long to open up and industrialize. They're far behind economically compared to wh…

> Part of that is due to their rampant IP theft Weren’t South Korea, Taiwan, and even Japan once known for their rampant IP theft?

>Japan once known for their rampant IP theft?

Yes they stole even IBM Mainframe OS's repeatedly....and sold it.

Re: Ghana will no longer sell cocoa to Switzerland

#275

Post by jldugger »

oblio wrote: post #27
m12k wrote: post #15

I'm reading the book The Divide at the moment. It makes the argument that it takes time and the right conditions to build up an industry - infrastructure needs to be built, education and a skilled labor pool with the necessary know-how as well. To begin with, a fledgling industry in a developing country cannot compete with those of already industrialized countries - these are already so effective that they can underc…

> So the book argues that when developing countries are pressured into free trade agreements This should have been obvious since the Opium Wars and the Opening of Japan (see Commodore Matthew Perry). All developed countries are pro free trade for markets where they are strong and fiercely protectionist where they are not (or they consider those markets strategic priorities). I'm from Romania. Romania joined the EU in…

> Do you know why I know them? Because there are 0 (zero!) local supermarket chains left. They've all been bought by foreign companies.

It depends on your perspective really. When I lived in Oregon, there were Fred Meyers all over the place, but they're all owned by Kroger (HQ in Ohio) now. Are they 'foreign' because they're from another state inside the USA?

AFAIK, Kroger keeps the local brands, so IDK why none of the local Romanian brands were kept. If it's anything like China or USSR, probably not a lot of faith in the local brands I guess?

Re: Ghana will no longer sell cocoa to Switzerland

#276

Post by the_af »

Andrew_nenakhov wrote: post #271
fragmede wrote: post #259

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Even domestically, the reason Hollywood is the center of the film industry is because California was too far from the East coast for patents on moving picture cameras to be effectively enforced.

I thought it has more to do with weather, particularly ~300 sunny days per year.

It was a bit of both. I think I first read about this in Lessig's Free Culture [1], but even Wikipedia mentions some of this: somewhat ironically because of the MPAA's current heavy-handed tactics, Hollywood was founded on piracy and patents infringement. Some moviemakers moved West to explore new territories and climates (Wikipedia mentions D.W. Griffith) but others soon followed suit in order to avoid Edison's patents. It can be argued that Hollywood was made possible by people who broke the law [2]

So Hollywood and the MPAA, who so aggressively pursue what they deem "IP infringement", have more than one skeleton in their closets.

Bear this in mind whenever someone tells you -- as often witnessed here on HN -- "but without copyright there will be no writers" or "art isn't possible without IP laws".

----

[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Free_Culture_(book)

[2] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cinema_of_the_United_States#Ri...

Re: Ghana will no longer sell cocoa to Switzerland

#277

Post by simonh »

prepend wrote: post #55

I think it’s good to see raw producers start working up market to make their own chocolate. I think a Ghanaian chocolate brand actually owned by Ghanaians and made for export would market very well. It’s interesting to me how much tasty and interesting stuff in Africa has not been marketed internationally and there’s lots of room for them to grow and develop. For example, fonio [0], is a grain native to west Africa t…

I found this article about the developing domestic Ghanaian Chocolate industry much more informative than the OP.

https://foodtank.com/news/2018/08/ghanaian-chocolate-revolut...

Re: Ghana will no longer sell cocoa to Switzerland

#278

Post by rsj_hn »

ClumsyPilot wrote: post #128
dahfizz wrote: post #90

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> the USA is not-allowing Germany the right to build a pipeline with Russia! The USA is threatening trade sanctions if Germany builds the pipeline. I would not call that "not-allowing". That seems to be OP's whole point. The US is responding as a sovereign nation to actions of other sovereign nations. Phraseology like "allow" and "disallow" are not accurate. If Germany does the cost-benefit analysis and decides to ca…

The law is threatening fines if you exceed the speed limit. By that logic. Are allowed to break the law? Are you not?

There is no right to trade with the US, or with anyone else.

If the US wants to impose a tariff to nations that do X, that does not mean that the US is forcing these nations to do anything. They can pay the tarrif, change their behavior, or sell their goods elsewhere. Or they can charge a counter-tarrif -- oops, not if they are an export-dependent economy they can't. That's the crux of the issue.

Germany needs to pay their own workers enough so the German economy is not dependent on exporting a 1/3 of their GDP each year just to maintain domestic employment.

Obviously when you create an economy that crashes the moment others stop letting you run massive trade surpluses, then you are effectively handing your sovereignty over to your trading partners.

Whining about that and blaming your trading partners for using the power Germany has given them seems a bit naive.

Germany will never be sovereign as long as it is an export-dependent economy.

Re: Ghana will no longer sell cocoa to Switzerland

#279

Post by DubiousPusher »

jldugger wrote: post #275
oblio wrote: post #27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> So the book argues that when developing countries are pressured into free trade agreements This should have been obvious since the Opium Wars and the Opening of Japan (see Commodore Matthew Perry). All developed countries are pro free trade for markets where they are strong and fiercely protectionist where they are not (or they consider those markets strategic priorities). I'm from Romania. Romania joined the EU in…

> Do you know why I know them? Because there are 0 (zero!) local supermarket chains left. They've all been bought by foreign companies. It depends on your perspective really. When I lived in Oregon, there were Fred Meyers all over the place, but they're all owned by Kroger (HQ in Ohio) now. Are they 'foreign' because they're from another state inside the USA? AFAIK, Kroger keeps the local brands, so IDK why none of t…

Sort of yes. While a lot of the benefits of the development that comes with the growth of the grocery industry in Oregon will stay local, the surplus will not. It ends up in Ohio or inside pensions or investor pockets.

But this isn't a great analogy because the U.S. federal government keeps interstate trade much more homogeneous than the EU.

Re: Ghana will no longer sell cocoa to Switzerland

#280

Post by 908B64B197 »

brutus1213 wrote: post #145
yorwba wrote: post #125

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> See how TSMC (Taiwan) and Samsung are free to buy ASMLs EUV machines, while China is blocked. Part of that is due to their rampant IP theft. Why sell machines to China if they're just going to copy them? ASML's machines aren't something you can just copy by buying one of them. (You'd do better by hiring ex-ASML engineers to teach you how to do it.) And ASML would've sold their EUV equipment (just as they continue t…

I think people who think China can be contained are being naive. As an academic, I am extremely impressed with the improvement in scientific publications in CS out of China of late. In 10 years, they are now killing it on a consistent basis (personal anecdote: a paper from Tsinghua or Shanghai Jiao Tong on average is as good as one from Berkeley, Stanford or MIT). I have a feeling it has to do with the reality that C…

> (personal anecdote: a paper from Tsinghua or Shanghai Jiao Tong on average is as good as one from Berkeley, Stanford or MIT)

Wait until Berkeley Stanford and MIT get better network security! [0][1][2]

[0] https://www.nytimes.com/2019/12/31/us/chinese-scientist-canc...

[1] https://www.latimes.com/california/story/2020-06-11/chinese-...

[2] https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/manitoba/chinese-researcher-e...

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