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Ghana will no longer sell cocoa to Switzerland

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Re: Ghana will no longer sell cocoa to Switzerland

#211

Post by sct202 »

dominicl wrote: post #96
pydry wrote: post #53

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is effectively how the US built up the industries of Japan, Taiwan and South Korea. The reason these countries were allowed to do it where others are not was because the US wanted strategically placed powerful allies in the region. There probably wouldn't be a Japanese electronics/car industry, for instance, if the Soviets hadn't spooked the the US in the 40s.

I'm curious about this argument. Haven't heard the "tiger states" growth attributed solely to US policies. Any links/pointers to those advantages that were granted these states but not other developing countries at the time?

I don't know about solely developed, but South Korea, Taiwan, and Japan did receive substantial amounts of foreign aid in the post-war period. In addition, some of this aid financed land reforms that forced large land owners to break up large holdings and sell to the tenant farmers who previously rented the land. The notoriously small farms in Japan are not a natural free market development.

Re: Ghana will no longer sell cocoa to Switzerland

#212

Post by dahfizz »

dane-pgp wrote: post #203
dahfizz wrote: post #190

Earlier quoted context omitted.

My landlord raised my rent this year. Are they not allowing me to live in my apartment?

You're not allowed to break the speed limit even if you pay the fine. You are allowed to live in your apartment if you pay the demanded rent.

> You are allowed to live in your apartment if you pay the demanded rent.

ding ding ding. Germany is allowed to build whatever pipelines they want, they just also might have to pay US trade sanctions. Without a threat of force, we are not forcing them to do anything.

Re: Ghana will no longer sell cocoa to Switzerland

#213

Post by devdas »

ReadFList wrote: post #161
m12k wrote: post #15

I'm reading the book The Divide at the moment. It makes the argument that it takes time and the right conditions to build up an industry - infrastructure needs to be built, education and a skilled labor pool with the necessary know-how as well. To begin with, a fledgling industry in a developing country cannot compete with those of already industrialized countries - these are already so effective that they can underc…

>To begin with, a fledgling industry in a developing country cannot compete with those of already industrialized countries >these countries are also forced into a position where they get stuck at the low end of the production value chain, selling raw materials, while buying processed goods from others (often the same role they were forcibly assigned when they were colonies Basically what Friedrich List [1] wrote in 1…

It was a lot of luck. Today, you would need access to oil for energy (which needs USD), and far more complex technology, which needs money to acquire.

The US could also support massively extractive industries internally. Most countries can't do that.

Re: Ghana will no longer sell cocoa to Switzerland

#214

Post by BoorishBears »

jjcon wrote: post #205
BoorishBears wrote: post #202

Earlier quoted context omitted.

... except it's actually relevant to the thread's point about exercising greater control over cocoa

The above was in a response saying they could take 20 years to invest in cocoa elsewhere - the shortage is very temporary in comparison

... no it didn't. Didn't even imply it. Literally there was an aside that used "20 years" and that's it.

Why would you lie about a comment I can literally just scroll up to read?

The pandemic and its effects doesn't need to last 20 years for Ghana and the Ivory Coast to take greater control of their cocoa crop.

We're literally watching it happen right now.

Re: Ghana will no longer sell cocoa to Switzerland

#216

Post by mrkramer »

m12k wrote: post #15

I'm reading the book The Divide at the moment. It makes the argument that it takes time and the right conditions to build up an industry - infrastructure needs to be built, education and a skilled labor pool with the necessary know-how as well. To begin with, a fledgling industry in a developing country cannot compete with those of already industrialized countries - these are already so effective that they can underc…

Developing countries lack proper legal system where laws are based on property rights and market economy. That's why mentality of African people for example can not change and can not embrace capitalism.

I would suggest you to read Hernando De Soto - The Mystery Of Capital: Why Capitalism Triumphs In The West And Fails Everywhere Else

The book argues "it actually has everything to do with the legal structure of property and property rights. Every developed nation in the world at one time went through the transformation from predominantly informal, extralegal ownership to a formal, unified legal property system. In the West we've forgotten that creating this system is also what allowed people everywhere to leverage property into wealth." [1]

Book is in the public domain: [1] https://archive.org/details/Hernando_De_Soto_The_Mystery_Of_...

Once the China for instance embraced capitalism and changed their legal system to allow private property ownership and allow market economy they thrived. Plus allowing American companies to come and exploit cheap work force they acquired "know-how" by now widely known and familiar stealing of intellectual property and copying literally everything they put their hands on.

Re: Ghana will no longer sell cocoa to Switzerland

#217

Post by totalZero »

m12k wrote: post #15

I'm reading the book The Divide at the moment. It makes the argument that it takes time and the right conditions to build up an industry - infrastructure needs to be built, education and a skilled labor pool with the necessary know-how as well. To begin with, a fledgling industry in a developing country cannot compete with those of already industrialized countries - these are already so effective that they can underc…

> when developing countries are pressured into free trade agreements (for example by making aid dependent on this)

"forced" is probably not the right word. "baited" is better.

The developed world uses aid/loans to manipulate policy in the developed world, by targeting desperation. Make loans that the recipient cannot repay, then offer to restructure if they will comply with certain conditions.

This is why the IMF exists.

Re: Ghana will no longer sell cocoa to Switzerland

#219

Post by mrkramer »

Mediterraneo10 wrote: post #118
pjmlp wrote: post #86

Earlier quoted context omitted.

To the point that when I traveled around a couple of years ago along the coast, most people I met along the way seemed to be more confortable speaking German than English.

Serbian/Croatian/Bosnian/Kosovar familiarity with German is something that dates from the era of Yugoslavia, it has little to do with corporate sway in the modern EU. Yugoslavia 1) allowed its people to freely work in the West, and many people chose to go to West Germany, and 2) Yugoslavia built up extensive tourist infrastructure in Croatia and Montenegro that drew predominantly German-speaking holidaymakers (and no…

As far as I know the history of my country Croatia familiarity with Germanic nations dates from Habsburg Monarchy[1] meaning 300+ years.

[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Habsburg_Monarchy

Re: Ghana will no longer sell cocoa to Switzerland

#220

Post by mrkramer »

audunw wrote: post #119
killtimeatwork wrote: post #87

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's where China was smart I guess. They didn't sign any treaty which forced them into free trade or IP protection, but instead slowly allowed their industries to build up via IP theft and strong protectionism. Now they have giant companies on par with the West's. Whereas everyone who joined the EU in the decade of 2000 (and the Washington Consensus before that in the nineties) is now a pawn of the Western capital…

I really think China is making a huge mistake actually. See how TSMC (Taiwan) and Samsung are free to buy ASMLs EUV machines, while China is blocked. Part of that is due to their rampant IP theft. Why sell machines to China if they're just going to copy them? China also messed up big time by enforcing their 1 child policy, and taking so long to open up and industrialize. They're far behind economically compared to wh…

IP theft allowed China to acquire much needed technical know-how and to build up their manufacturing industry.
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