Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

Ghana will no longer sell cocoa to Switzerland

face2faceafrica.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

171–180 of 437 posts

Re: Ghana will no longer sell cocoa to Switzerland

#171

Post by Mauricebranagh »

throwaway776543 wrote: post #163
audunw wrote: post #119

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I really think China is making a huge mistake actually. See how TSMC (Taiwan) and Samsung are free to buy ASMLs EUV machines, while China is blocked. Part of that is due to their rampant IP theft. Why sell machines to China if they're just going to copy them? China also messed up big time by enforcing their 1 child policy, and taking so long to open up and industrialize. They're far behind economically compared to wh…

> Part of that is due to their rampant IP theft Weren’t South Korea, Taiwan, and even Japan once known for their rampant IP theft?

The US was to and not that long ago.

Re: Ghana will no longer sell cocoa to Switzerland

#172

Post by Mat342 »

ReadFList wrote: post #161
m12k wrote: post #15

I'm reading the book The Divide at the moment. It makes the argument that it takes time and the right conditions to build up an industry - infrastructure needs to be built, education and a skilled labor pool with the necessary know-how as well. To begin with, a fledgling industry in a developing country cannot compete with those of already industrialized countries - these are already so effective that they can underc…

>To begin with, a fledgling industry in a developing country cannot compete with those of already industrialized countries >these countries are also forced into a position where they get stuck at the low end of the production value chain, selling raw materials, while buying processed goods from others (often the same role they were forcibly assigned when they were colonies Basically what Friedrich List [1] wrote in 1…

Honestly I don't think americans can outcompete Japan, Korea Taiwan or China. Maybe they keep accepting fake printed USD for real stuff in the future

Re: Ghana will no longer sell cocoa to Switzerland

#173

Post by bogomipz »

sct202 wrote: post #93
jelling wrote: post #40

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Same. I am concerned they are overlooking how much marketing mind-share Switzerland has globally for chocolate. Ghana could get there but it will not happen overnight, more like a generation. Distribution will also take time. Give that cocoa is their number 3 export - and I suspect most of that is in raw form - I really hope this doesn’t backfire. They need foreign currency. A wiser path might be to build up global c…

They can process the beans and no one will notice. There are a lot of cocoa processors who produce bulk chocolate for other brands who melt that down to form their own products. Companies like Barry Callebaut or Valrhona primarily supply other companies with chocolate.

Sure but processing cocoa into chocolate at the scale quality of Callebaut and Valrhona is a massive undertaking of both production and skill. Callebaut and Valrhona produce chocolate for high end consumers such as pastry chefs in high end restaurants or artisanal bakeries. I'm not saying Ghana can't get there but it's going to a long time. Certainly long enough that it would be very much noticed.

Re: Ghana will no longer sell cocoa to Switzerland

#174

Post by Mat342 »

pydry wrote: post #53
edflsafoiewq wrote: post #36

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Free trade is usually done on a tit-for-tat basis. I think the GP is saying they should allow protectionist policies without "tatting".

This is effectively how the US built up the industries of Japan, Taiwan and South Korea. The reason these countries were allowed to do it where others are not was because the US wanted strategically placed powerful allies in the region. There probably wouldn't be a Japanese electronics/car industry, for instance, if the Soviets hadn't spooked the the US in the 40s.

That's absolute BS, asians are smart and hardworking, US didn't build them

Re: Ghana will no longer sell cocoa to Switzerland

#175

Post by Mat342 »

austincheney wrote: post #9
staticelf wrote: post #4

Good for them I guess or is it? I don't understand how you cannot have prosparity from selling raw materials? If you think you're not being paid enough, increase the price along with creating your own products. It seems weird to me to not let foreign countries buy your raw materials just because you want to produce more stuff yourself. It's not like I will start buying chocolate made in ghana because they don't want…

> If you think you're not being paid enough, increase the price along with creating your own products. Who makes that decision? Cocoa slavery is a thing because the economics of raw material pricing is complicated by many factors but the demand is very simple and very high.

It's 2021, africans can abolish slavery if they want to

Re: Ghana will no longer sell cocoa to Switzerland

#176

Post by Mauricebranagh »

tim333 wrote: post #158
m12k wrote: post #15

I'm reading the book The Divide at the moment. It makes the argument that it takes time and the right conditions to build up an industry - infrastructure needs to be built, education and a skilled labor pool with the necessary know-how as well. To begin with, a fledgling industry in a developing country cannot compete with those of already industrialized countries - these are already so effective that they can underc…

When I was younger tariffs were popular in developing countries but they seldom seemed to produce much prosperity - quite the contrary really. Maybe if you apply the tariffs very intelligently but most developing countries are not blessed with great non corrupt governments. The >pressured into free trade agreements (for example by making aid dependent on this) is kind of telling. A lot of the long time free trading c…

And even today you can see NH users in south America facing eyewatering taxes on computer hardware.

Re: Ghana will no longer sell cocoa to Switzerland

#177

Post by ISL »

pastacacioepepe wrote: post #113
sandworm101 wrote: post #110

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>> a fledgling industry in a developing country cannot compete with those of already industrialized countries Except that often they do. With lower safety/environmental standards, lower wages, and lower expectations many "developing" countries can undercut the labor markets of developed countries, operating advanced manufacturing at far reduced costs. Many would ague that is exactly how China has risen to power. A re…

> With lower safety/environmental standards, lower wages Well, no, thanks. I'd rather not be forced to enslave my people in order to compete with western capitalism.

The people of some countries are already enslaved by poverty and corruption. The pragmatic question is: will attracting outside capital improve the situation of the populace or not?

Re: Ghana will no longer sell cocoa to Switzerland

#178

Post by [deleted] »

prepend wrote: post #55

I think it’s good to see raw producers start working up market to make their own chocolate. I think a Ghanaian chocolate brand actually owned by Ghanaians and made for export would market very well. It’s interesting to me how much tasty and interesting stuff in Africa has not been marketed internationally and there’s lots of room for them to grow and develop. For example, fonio [0], is a grain native to west Africa t…

[deleted]

Re: Ghana will no longer sell cocoa to Switzerland

#179

Post by Mauricebranagh »

pastacacioepepe wrote: post #113
sandworm101 wrote: post #110

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>> a fledgling industry in a developing country cannot compete with those of already industrialized countries Except that often they do. With lower safety/environmental standards, lower wages, and lower expectations many "developing" countries can undercut the labor markets of developed countries, operating advanced manufacturing at far reduced costs. Many would ague that is exactly how China has risen to power. A re…

> With lower safety/environmental standards, lower wages Well, no, thanks. I'd rather not be forced to enslave my people in order to compete with western capitalism.

Its not like those countries would have had higher labour standards in the first place.

Re: Ghana will no longer sell cocoa to Switzerland

#180

Post by jorblumesea »

jfengel wrote: post #156
audunw wrote: post #119

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I really think China is making a huge mistake actually. See how TSMC (Taiwan) and Samsung are free to buy ASMLs EUV machines, while China is blocked. Part of that is due to their rampant IP theft. Why sell machines to China if they're just going to copy them? China also messed up big time by enforcing their 1 child policy, and taking so long to open up and industrialize. They're far behind economically compared to wh…

Who is going to trust Chinese companies with things like 5G infrastructure and CPS, when they're all basically an extension of the CCP when it comes to security? They're going to try to compete on price and quality. If customers think that the Xiaomi phone is good and cheap, the governments will have a hard time banning it. Customers don't really care about turning over huge amounts of information to Tiktok as well a…

I think it's also fair to note that "Africa" is a huge place with huge income distributions. I can see South Africa and North Africa aligning more with the West, and East Africa going more to China.
Post reply on HN