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Ghana will no longer sell cocoa to Switzerland

face2faceafrica.com

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Re: Ghana will no longer sell cocoa to Switzerland

#161

Post by ReadFList »

m12k wrote: post #15

I'm reading the book The Divide at the moment. It makes the argument that it takes time and the right conditions to build up an industry - infrastructure needs to be built, education and a skilled labor pool with the necessary know-how as well. To begin with, a fledgling industry in a developing country cannot compete with those of already industrialized countries - these are already so effective that they can underc…

>To begin with, a fledgling industry in a developing country cannot compete with those of already industrialized countries >these countries are also forced into a position where they get stuck at the low end of the production value chain, selling raw materials, while buying processed goods from others (often the same role they were forcibly assigned when they were colonies

Basically what Friedrich List [1] wrote in 1841 [2], and being proven correct time and time again while we completely disregard it.

Now you can even go further and ask yourselves if what is happening in the West by moving all the factories and manufacturing to China and neighbouring countries isn't exactly like the Colonization of the Americas by the British.

It wasn't luck that made the USA Great. It was the best stock from Europe who come up with the American School [3], and we can now see the tragic consequences of abandoning it for "free" trade.

If a country imports manufactured goods and exports raw materials, it is a colony.

[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Friedrich_List [2] https://archive.org/details/nationalsystemp00nichgoog [3] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/American_School_(economics)

Re: Ghana will no longer sell cocoa to Switzerland

#163

Post by throwaway776543 »

audunw wrote: post #119
killtimeatwork wrote: post #87

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's where China was smart I guess. They didn't sign any treaty which forced them into free trade or IP protection, but instead slowly allowed their industries to build up via IP theft and strong protectionism. Now they have giant companies on par with the West's. Whereas everyone who joined the EU in the decade of 2000 (and the Washington Consensus before that in the nineties) is now a pawn of the Western capital…

I really think China is making a huge mistake actually. See how TSMC (Taiwan) and Samsung are free to buy ASMLs EUV machines, while China is blocked. Part of that is due to their rampant IP theft. Why sell machines to China if they're just going to copy them? China also messed up big time by enforcing their 1 child policy, and taking so long to open up and industrialize. They're far behind economically compared to wh…

> Part of that is due to their rampant IP theft

Weren’t South Korea, Taiwan, and even Japan once known for their rampant IP theft?

Re: Ghana will no longer sell cocoa to Switzerland

#164

Post by mpol »

fmajid wrote: post #65

Divine Chocolate is owned by Ghanaian cacao farmer: https://www.divinechocolate.com/products A much better model than the Fairtrade scam by which white-savior consultants jet off to poor countries to lecture locals whose backs their fat salaries are extracted off.

How i fairtrade a scam?

Please be aware that the market of cocoa is not an easy one and not very transparent. The Dutch TV maker Teun van der Keuken was devastated by what he saw in Ivory Coast with a lot of child slavery going on. He started his own slavefree brand Tony Chocolonely, but even they have to admit they can not guarantee it is slavefree made, they can only strive for that. By the way, the people from Nestle just shrugged over the issue of child slavery.

I am very happy to see good policy being applied in Africa, they need to do this more often and strongly. Europe and the US, governments and companies, have been pulling their strings far too long. I hope China can give them a sense of how they can fend better for themself.

Re: Ghana will no longer sell cocoa to Switzerland

#165

Post by throwaway776543 »

throwaway9870 wrote: post #124
m12k wrote: post #15

I'm reading the book The Divide at the moment. It makes the argument that it takes time and the right conditions to build up an industry - infrastructure needs to be built, education and a skilled labor pool with the necessary know-how as well. To begin with, a fledgling industry in a developing country cannot compete with those of already industrialized countries - these are already so effective that they can underc…

Perhaps, but Asia does pretty well. Korea, China, Taiwan, Vietnam, etc. all did amazing development in the last 30-60 years. The reality is that some cultures are better at it than others. Compare China to India for example.

What’s also interesting is South Korea and Taiwan developed during their authoritarian phase. You can probably throw Singapore into that group too.

Re: Ghana will no longer sell cocoa to Switzerland

#166

Post by auiya »

prepend wrote: post #55

I think it’s good to see raw producers start working up market to make their own chocolate. I think a Ghanaian chocolate brand actually owned by Ghanaians and made for export would market very well. It’s interesting to me how much tasty and interesting stuff in Africa has not been marketed internationally and there’s lots of room for them to grow and develop. For example, fonio [0], is a grain native to west Africa t…

There's a smoked chili pepper which I believe is native to the area that is labeled as "ghana pepper" for export, and is hard to find elsewhere. It is _incredible_.

Re: Ghana will no longer sell cocoa to Switzerland

#167

Post by viro »

pietrovismara wrote: post #144
viro wrote: post #142

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Only at the conditions imposed by the IMF. Usually that means the state has to steer away from anything that could be profitable and focus only on what is not palatable to foreign capital. Im going to need a direct example please

Just check the IMF page on "Conditionality"[0]. Check the "Prior actions" sections and see "Elimination of price controls" there. Also see this video[1] about Vietnam, around halfway through it explains pretty well how it works. Edit: I realize now you asked about the "forced privatization of industries" sentence. That's thoroughly stressed accross all IMF literature, and you can see it happen in pretty much every co…

I just want to note nationalized industries have an incredibly unfair advantage over private industry. Since nationalized industries have no real need to make money at all. Widget A cost $65 to make? Nah, let's sell it at $5. Most of the fund comes from capitalist states. It wouldn't make much of sense for them to fund an economic system that is often antagonistic to capitalism.

Re: Ghana will no longer sell cocoa to Switzerland

#168

Post by zfs »

m12k wrote: post #15

I'm reading the book The Divide at the moment. It makes the argument that it takes time and the right conditions to build up an industry - infrastructure needs to be built, education and a skilled labor pool with the necessary know-how as well. To begin with, a fledgling industry in a developing country cannot compete with those of already industrialized countries - these are already so effective that they can underc…

Is the difference between developing and developed countries really the lack of tariffs or is it due to poor governance? I feel like the reason why countries are always so pro-tariff is because the benefits of tariffs go towards a small group of people, whereas the cost of tariffs are diffused. But small costs add-up and if you start applying the tariffs to other industries then you start seeing the impacts in the cost of goods.

What are the examples where protecting a country from exports for a few decades then opening it up to competition actually produced a world-class industry? Singapore is an example of a country that has been pro free-trade and has benefited as a result.

Re: Ghana will no longer sell cocoa to Switzerland

#169

Post by hindsightbias »

barry-cotter wrote: post #45
zorked wrote: post #34

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Do you have any specific knowledge about Ghanaian industry or is this just your opinion? Can you provide some sources for your claims?

Why would the Ghanaian government be any better at economic planning than the Argentinian or Indian ones? Sometimes industrial policy “works”, as in South Korea or Japan. But we have no strong reason to believe either would have failed to develop without government help. Hong Kong didn’t need it. People talk about the successes of industrial planning a lot but Argentina and India aren’t the only countries to piss awa…

SK's recovery from the war was very sluggish for a decade until a military coup, protectionist economic polices, nationalization and multi-$B US economic donations.

Re: Ghana will no longer sell cocoa to Switzerland

#170

Post by TheButlerian »

skocznymroczny wrote: post #107
jopsen wrote: post #84

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Are those supermarkets really all that French or Belgian anymore? In practice, many large companies are owned by investors from all over the world looking for diversification.

The specific ownership and the details are irrelevant, what matters is that a large chunk of their profits is extracted out of the country and doesn't get reinvested.

Fucking dumb Eastern European gypsy.
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