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Out of prison after 30 years and people telling him to find forms on the web

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Re: Out of prison after 30 years and people telling him to find forms on the web

#141
post #81

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm a software engineer yet I don't do online banking (I literally "just go to the bank if I need something"). I don't consider myself a "luddite", I just don't see the advantage over traditional "offline banking". Same with shopping and all the other little nuisances of daily life.

I have this same predilection and I have thought a lot about it and I am pretty confident I know where this comes from for me: When I was young, after opening my first checking account, I fat-fingered a transfer from checking to savings online and the bank software interpreted this as me trying to transfer more than I had, so it happily proceeded to give me a large cash advance and then charge me $75 for the trouble,…

I hate, hate, hate when online forms do this. I almost accidentally bought a $500 gift card yesterday while trying to buy a $5.00 one because this exact same thing happened.

It would have been nice to have a notice pop up when they dropped the decimal, the same way so many forms do for the "invalid character" in my last name. (But I have no strong feelings on the subject whatsoever.)

Re: Out of prison after 30 years and people telling him to find forms on the web

#142
post #48

Unpopular opinion: I think government services and offices should remain offline-first forever. They should offer online equivalents, but they should never assume or require digital adoption. I think this has two big benefits: - Minor point: Greater resilience to downtime, interruptions to service - Major point: a check on becoming a faceless entity with no exposure to the public. Think Google or FB if you get flagge…

Government services are available offline or via phone as well. The government has some of the strictest accessibility requirements for everything they do. It’s one of the reasons that it’s so expensive to roll out new government services. People are directed to the online versions first because it’s fastest for everyone involved. We should be pushing everyone toward efficient online self-service first, while leaving…

In the US, I was in a government office a few days ago because I was told that if instead of uploaded documents via a website and waiting 10-45 days to have them reviewed I could go into a local office and provide these documents and they would review them on-site.

So I set off on a 35 minute drive to the local office.

While the wait times were shorter in the physical building I had to chuckle when I thought they were just collecting documents and uploading them to the same online portal I was warned would take a fair bit of time, but that I needed to allow a few more days past the 45 day limit because they fax them into the same remote place periodically. Their email system for the document collecting office does not allow email attachment of documents.

My other option, I kid you not, was to used their "house" cell phone and login to sensitive accounts, bank ect. And screenshot the information and use the same web-form to upload said documents.

Oh, and covid, I could not touch the "house" cellphone but he would wanted me to write my logins in a piece of scratch paper and he could navigate for me based on my direction.

Re: Out of prison after 30 years and people telling him to find forms on the web

#143

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Government services are available offline or via phone as well The US Embassy FBU in London has recently switched to email only. They no longer accept postal mail. [1] The FBU handles social security related matters for those out of the country. You can visit in person only for urgent visits with an appointment which they point out are limited. [2] They no longer list a phone number of their site so appointments mu…

This seems to be the case for other embassies of other nations too (I am an expat). But I do get the feeling that if you have moved to another country then you probably are more able to access services online (buying the ticket to get there in the first place is a start) than some 90 year old 'back home' who's never left the village. I guess the flipside is your needs may be more complex (passport / family / citizens…

Please keep in mind that some expats have been living overseas for 60+ years. They shouldn't be expected to know more about technology for any other senior citizen.

Re: Out of prison after 30 years and people telling him to find forms on the web

#144
Aside: While we're on the subject of incarcerated education, please consider donating time or resources to your local incarcerated people.

The American Library Association has a good list of book donation programs here: https://libguides.ala.org/book-donations/bookstoprisons

After the pandemic subsides (whenever that may be), the Bureau of Prisons has a guide on how to help out the recently/incarcerated here: https://www.bop.gov/jobs/volunteer.jsp

Here's a good piece on how a volunteer can help save lives (maybe this can be you!): https://prisonwriters.com/prison-volunteers/

Re: Out of prison after 30 years and people telling him to find forms on the web

#145

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Government services are available offline or via phone as well The US Embassy FBU in London has recently switched to email only. They no longer accept postal mail. [1] The FBU handles social security related matters for those out of the country. You can visit in person only for urgent visits with an appointment which they point out are limited. [2] They no longer list a phone number of their site so appointments mu…

This seems to be the case for other embassies of other nations too (I am an expat). But I do get the feeling that if you have moved to another country then you probably are more able to access services online (buying the ticket to get there in the first place is a start) than some 90 year old 'back home' who's never left the village. I guess the flipside is your needs may be more complex (passport / family / citizens…

Very true. For 99% of cases I would guess they're dealing with expats who didn't get a check or have a question about medicare coverage.

The example they give of an emergency is "a 12 year old needs to have a social security number issued". I think social security numbers are issued at birth now, so I don't think it comes up often. (Coincidentally I did need to have mine issued very quickly at 12)

But, to OP's point, there are services that are indeed moving to "online only".

Re: Out of prison after 30 years and people telling him to find forms on the web

#146

My first thought is how the prison system failed him. Computer literacy is a fundamental job skill in the 21st century, one that's relatively easily and inexpensively taught. I'd expect computer literacy programs in any prison system built around rehabilitation.

The US prison system did exactly what the US prison system is designed to do. It's never been a rehabilatory system and we will have to fight to improve it.

The author of the Tweet is from South Africa

Re: Out of prison after 30 years and people telling him to find forms on the web

#147
post #7

In contrast, I am sure we all know some older people who were not in prisson for the past 30 years and still don't know how to write an email, what a zoom call is or when it's appropriate to double-click vs single click items on a computer. I know people in their 50s who pretend that "they don't need this technology" or "I can just go to the bank if I need something". Sure, if you're in your 80s you might want to dod…

I'm a software engineer yet I don't do online banking (I literally "just go to the bank if I need something"). I don't consider myself a "luddite", I just don't see the advantage over traditional "offline banking". Same with shopping and all the other little nuisances of daily life.

Banks around me are swapping tellers for atms. Like literally no way to talk to anyone inside.

Re: Out of prison after 30 years and people telling him to find forms on the web

#148
post #109

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>> if you're in your 80s you might want to dodge most of the digital stuff. If you are in your 80s today, you were in your 60s in 2000 and 50s during the 90s .com boom. I have no sympathy. Unless you were living under a rock you would have at least known of the internet. If you have reached your 80s today without "doing email" you are either Amish or repeatedly chose to avoid learning about technology. Once upon a ti…

TFA is about people in prison , aka, living under a rock. Your attitude here is completely inappropriate.

Read the post to which I replied. It was not speaking about prisons.

"I know people in their 50s who pretend that "they don't need this technology" or "I can just go to the bank if I need something". Sure, if you're in your 80s you might want to dodge most of the digital stuff. But in your 50s? You're gonna have to live with an increasing digitalization for multiple decades."

Re: Out of prison after 30 years and people telling him to find forms on the web

#149
post #7

In contrast, I am sure we all know some older people who were not in prisson for the past 30 years and still don't know how to write an email, what a zoom call is or when it's appropriate to double-click vs single click items on a computer. I know people in their 50s who pretend that "they don't need this technology" or "I can just go to the bank if I need something". Sure, if you're in your 80s you might want to dod…

>ffs sit down and learn the in-depth tools and tricks in the tools over the span of two weekends Even IT people don't know their tools as much as I'd like them to. Taking time out like this, to get to know the tools, is a worthy effort for all.

True. There are just too many.

I should still improve my knowledge of git, gradle, intelij, various command line tools, docker and so on.

That by itself isn't to much but all this stuff comes on top of just staying up to date with the plattform you are working on and learning the next framework or library which you immediately need. Looking at you, android and your yearly updates, Kotlin, and a dozen jetpack libraries.

Re: Out of prison after 30 years and people telling him to find forms on the web

#150
After briefly reading the comments I decided to chime in a little bit.

First, 30 years on the inside...crazy. I don't think it is possible to put that in perspective. Cellphones were uncommon, the internet was still using "prodigy" and the likes, pagers were the "in thing". Forget trying to use the internet...these people have issues with the "number of decisions" in the grocery store (it is one of those areas where people quite literally freeze up, if you don't know feel free to look up the commissary options this person has had for 30 years). Nothing looks the same, not neighborhoods, cars, clothing, people... You have been staring at guards for the last 30 years and an PA announcement has told you when/where to move and when to eat. Every day has been on repeat...

Now...30 years has passed and they let you out. What do you do...nothing but choices and a nearly constant flood of situations and experiences which you don't fully understand. Every task is something new to learn. And if you ask for help you are likely going to need to explain why you don't understand this stuff which may cause those people who were willing to help to second guess themselves and/or judge you. You have nothing...assume your family/friends have mostly moved on (this happens even when you are not in prison often) and your only hope to have enough to get back on your feet is to fill out the mountains of forms required to get a portion of what you really need to live. Now imagine your only way to get those forms is to use the internet...it is very fortunate this person had a case worker who was willing to spend the time to help...many don't.

There is a non-zero amount of recidivism which is intentional. People get out and then decide the world moved on without them. They were better off not having choices or options they did not understand. Often, the hoops of parole are too much and they prefer to "top out" their time so they are not required to do things like keep a job which has paystubs (often you get paid way more under the table, as well as having bosses who don't undervalue your pay due to your criminal past), or find proper housing (halfway houses are required often for parole if you do not have someone who will vouch for you in a written letter). Not to mention that staying sober is hard at times, decide to get drunk on the wrong night or share a joint with someone and you are likely to face repercussions from your Parole officer.

It is a difficult situation. I have nothing but the utmost respect for the case manager. She very likely kept this person from either reoffending or worse killing themselves.

The programs on the inside are often not the best (depends on the state, program, and facility...some are private). If you think there is any way you can or would like to help in this situation maybe get in touch with some of the halfway houses or probation offices in your area. Your tech skills and abilities to navigate paperwork are much more valuable than you might understand. From there...you could look into possibly helping inside the prisons too (there may be other restrictions). Maybe even just look into mailing some books to the library there (last I checked they had to be shipped in by the vendor/bookstore). That book on Python may very well be the thing that changes their life...and possibly society.

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