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Out of prison after 30 years and people telling him to find forms on the web

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Re: Out of prison after 30 years and people telling him to find forms on the web

#41

Post by etrautmann »

TeMPOraL wrote: post #24
refactor_master wrote: post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That rant, wow. It really resonates deeply with me. People would rather cumulatively spend some 10000 hours yelling at Office for the rest of their lives, instead of spending 10 over the course of some evenings/weekends to brush up on the basics. Even from an immediate-more-important-priorities-perspective it almost doesn’t make sense to me.

It's fractal, I see this even in the tech industry itself - people are reluctant to sit down with a manual for an hour to figure out how some software (or device) works, and prefer to forever call it "too complicated to use", just because they couldn't grok it in 30 seconds.

The flip side of this is that interfaces are changing constantly. As soon as I've committed something to muscle memory, a forced app update will overhaul a UI and I need to relearn where to find basic commands. When compounded by the hundreds of programs I use across multiple OS's and platforms, I get used to just assuming that interfaces are and features constantly in flux. This means that I invest less in deeply learning any specific tool.

Re: Out of prison after 30 years and people telling him to find forms on the web

#42

Post by deepstack »

flohofwoe wrote: post #25
Farbklex wrote: post #7

In contrast, I am sure we all know some older people who were not in prisson for the past 30 years and still don't know how to write an email, what a zoom call is or when it's appropriate to double-click vs single click items on a computer. I know people in their 50s who pretend that "they don't need this technology" or "I can just go to the bank if I need something". Sure, if you're in your 80s you might want to dod…

I'm a software engineer yet I don't do online banking (I literally "just go to the bank if I need something"). I don't consider myself a "luddite", I just don't see the advantage over traditional "offline banking". Same with shopping and all the other little nuisances of daily life.

Glad another software guy saying this. Digital infrastructure as how it now has no integrity.

I prefer going to bank if I have time.

Even the largest bank like Feds can have 3 trillion dollars operation error. https://thespeakernewsjournal.com/us/bank-wires-worth-trilli...

Knowing what I know and the kind of security that is in online banking does not bring any confidence in me.

Re: Out of prison after 30 years and people telling him to find forms on the web

#43

Post by paranoidrobot »

flohofwoe wrote: post #25
Farbklex wrote: post #7

In contrast, I am sure we all know some older people who were not in prisson for the past 30 years and still don't know how to write an email, what a zoom call is or when it's appropriate to double-click vs single click items on a computer. I know people in their 50s who pretend that "they don't need this technology" or "I can just go to the bank if I need something". Sure, if you're in your 80s you might want to dod…

I'm a software engineer yet I don't do online banking (I literally "just go to the bank if I need something"). I don't consider myself a "luddite", I just don't see the advantage over traditional "offline banking". Same with shopping and all the other little nuisances of daily life.

Increasingly banks are reducing the ability to do that.

Here in Australia most banks have closed down branches in many smaller communities over the last 20 years.

Many of the 'standard' accounts that people have either only one in-branch visit per month, or none at all - and charge a fee for it.

Credit Unions and Building Societies are not much better, if at all.

There's also a growing number of online-only banks which don't have any physical branches, and all your interaction with them is online or over the phone.

Re: Out of prison after 30 years and people telling him to find forms on the web

#44

Post by SketchySeaBeast »

dreen wrote: post #38
sunir wrote: post #31

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I would imagine you do understand the advantage of 30 seconds of time from anywhere in the world versus a 20-60min round trip to the bank. I imagine there are other reasons you value than time and space convenience. Why do you feel the physical trip is more valuable?

I cannot speak for him but kind of understand. Obviously depends on what is it you want to do. You go to the bank and express what you need in simple speech to another human, who handles everything. Depending on the bank, a journey to do the same on web/app may be less preferable, especially if handle a lot of mental load during the day.

I wonder what requests are being made - for myself the entirety of what I do in a bank is moving money from one account into another, and that is way easier online than trying to get a human to understand exactly what I want.

Re: Out of prison after 30 years and people telling him to find forms on the web

#45

Post by MaxBarraclough »

refactor_master wrote: post #19
Farbklex wrote: post #7

In contrast, I am sure we all know some older people who were not in prisson for the past 30 years and still don't know how to write an email, what a zoom call is or when it's appropriate to double-click vs single click items on a computer. I know people in their 50s who pretend that "they don't need this technology" or "I can just go to the bank if I need something". Sure, if you're in your 80s you might want to dod…

That rant, wow. It really resonates deeply with me. People would rather cumulatively spend some 10000 hours yelling at Office for the rest of their lives, instead of spending 10 over the course of some evenings/weekends to brush up on the basics. Even from an immediate-more-important-priorities-perspective it almost doesn’t make sense to me.

Related to this: just how easy is powerful software meant to be?

People who don't know how to drive don't blame it on cars.

Re: Out of prison after 30 years and people telling him to find forms on the web

#46

Post by flohofwoe »

Larrikin wrote: post #34
flohofwoe wrote: post #25

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm a software engineer yet I don't do online banking (I literally "just go to the bank if I need something"). I don't consider myself a "luddite", I just don't see the advantage over traditional "offline banking". Same with shopping and all the other little nuisances of daily life.

Budgeting using a tool like YNAB has allowed me to manage monthly funds more effectively, pay off debts faster, and save up more quickly for the things I want to buy. It's possible to use it by inputting all your receipts in manually but it's such a time sink. Automatic importing let's me see exactly where my funds are and budget quickly in a few minutes at the start of my day. When cards are not importing correctly…

That's good for you, but it sounds like you are spending way more time managing finances online, than I do offline ;) I have an average weekly budget that I keep track of in my head, and that's it. That's also the reason why I prefer paying in cash. Easier to keep track of the outgoing money.

Re: Out of prison after 30 years and people telling him to find forms on the web

#47

Post by liuhenry »

HenryBemis wrote: post #6
tyingq wrote: post #2

30 years, so he would have went into prison in 1991. Wow, yeah, I can imagine getting out would have been a surreal experience.

To that point, I was thinking that.. in some countries, even if you are jailed for murder, after some time served, you may request and can be allowed to take some 'leave' (24/48h). Didn't he get the chance to take any such 'leaves' in the US? I honestly don't know US Justice system. Would there be the chance that his crime was so severe to not be allowed to get a leave at all for 30 years?

I grew up in the US and (unfortunately) this was the first time I'd heard of such a concept. I did some research and "prison furloughs" became a key political issue in the 1988 US presidential election [1]. The federal prison system now only allows non-emergency furloughs for inmates if they are within 2 years of their release/parole date, and who did not commit a violent crime.

Prison furlough programs existed in all 50 states in the 1980s, and "almost 10 percent of state and federal prisoners received a furlough in 1987". [2][3]

[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Revolving_Door_(advertisement)

[2] https://www.nytimes.com/1988/10/12/us/study-says-53000-got-p...

[3] https://www.themarshallproject.org/2015/05/13/willie-horton-...

Re: Out of prison after 30 years and people telling him to find forms on the web

#48

Post by ballenf »

Unpopular opinion: I think government services and offices should remain offline-first forever. They should offer online equivalents, but they should never assume or require digital adoption.

I think this has two big benefits:

- Minor point: Greater resilience to downtime, interruptions to service

- Major point: a check on becoming a faceless entity with no exposure to the public. Think Google or FB if you get flagged. If there's a number you can call or an office you can go to and a guarantee of service via those modalities, it provides at least a modicum of accountability.

Re: Out of prison after 30 years and people telling him to find forms on the web

#49

Post by sandworm101 »

Farbklex wrote: post #7

In contrast, I am sure we all know some older people who were not in prisson for the past 30 years and still don't know how to write an email, what a zoom call is or when it's appropriate to double-click vs single click items on a computer. I know people in their 50s who pretend that "they don't need this technology" or "I can just go to the bank if I need something". Sure, if you're in your 80s you might want to dod…

>> if you're in your 80s you might want to dodge most of the digital stuff.

If you are in your 80s today, you were in your 60s in 2000 and 50s during the 90s .com boom. I have no sympathy. Unless you were living under a rock you would have at least known of the internet. If you have reached your 80s today without "doing email" you are either Amish or repeatedly chose to avoid learning about technology.

Once upon a time cellphones were new and we built models with fake dial tones for old people (the "jitterbug" phone). That product is done. Current Jitterbugs have buttons for calling a nurse, but no dial tone. Anyone still expecting a cellphone to have a dial tone is officially a luddite.

(For any Amish reading this, I know that many of you do use email, but I suspect few are on HN.)

Re: Out of prison after 30 years and people telling him to find forms on the web

#50

Post by wongarsu »

PascLeRasc wrote: post #35
refactor_master wrote: post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That rant, wow. It really resonates deeply with me. People would rather cumulatively spend some 10000 hours yelling at Office for the rest of their lives, instead of spending 10 over the course of some evenings/weekends to brush up on the basics. Even from an immediate-more-important-priorities-perspective it almost doesn’t make sense to me.

Will brushing up help when Microsoft moves all the menus in the next edition? How about when they add in new errors and make File Explorer not return correct results and Windows Search just searches Bing instead of your computer? Or when they add stuff like “you aren’t allowed to attach that file to an email. It’s because it’s open in Word, but we’re not telling you that. Yes, we know this only happens in Outlook and…

Microsoft moves the menus in office at most once a decade. They just kept adding onto the Office 95 menus for twelve years, then they introduced ribbons, now 13 years later they move away from ribbons.

They aren't some SaaS company that moves things for fun

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