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The reason the local mall is failing (2018)

strongtowns.org

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Re: The reason the local mall is failing (2018)

#31

Post by starik36 »

rootusrootus wrote: post #9

Our local mall went through a period of decline, as old stalwarts like Sears, Montgomery Ward, and JC Penny went out of business or left. But then it got renovated, new stores moved in, and it's as busy as ever. I think it just took a different selection of stores to attract customers back. And the redesign made space for a number of medium-size anchor stores like REI who have doors facing out rather than into the ma…

REI might work in a well populated area. This town has 11k inhabitants. The neighboring town which sports Walmart and Costco (the one the author laments driving to) has a population of 8k.

I don't think there is enough population to support a profitable REI in an age where you can order everything it sells for cheaper elsewhere.

Re: The reason the local mall is failing (2018)

#32

Post by m463 »

I think this is obvious if you watch the walmart movie[1]

There was an interesting scene in the movie where a small town was getting a new walmart, and they drove around downtown.

They pointed at each of the stores and assigned values like "6 months" or "3 months" as an estimate of survival after they lost all their business to walmart.

Another wave of change has been moving in slow motion for years with online purchases and local stores, but the pandemic has been a tsunami in comparison.

[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wal-Mart:_The_High_Cost_of_Low...

Re: The reason the local mall is failing (2018)

#33

Post by jimbob45 »

m463 wrote: post #32

I think this is obvious if you watch the walmart movie[1] There was an interesting scene in the movie where a small town was getting a new walmart, and they drove around downtown. They pointed at each of the stores and assigned values like "6 months" or "3 months" as an estimate of survival after they lost all their business to walmart. Another wave of change has been moving in slow motion for years with online purch…

To be fair to Wal-Mart, that seems to have less to do with Wal-Mart being a devious corporation and more that the lower class can scarcely afford to live anymore without the ultra-efficient economies of scale Wal-Mart provides.

In a world with a livable minimum wage, I imagine Wal-Mart would have less of a captive consumer base.

Re: The reason the local mall is failing (2018)

#34

Post by seibelj »

m463 wrote: post #32

I think this is obvious if you watch the walmart movie[1] There was an interesting scene in the movie where a small town was getting a new walmart, and they drove around downtown. They pointed at each of the stores and assigned values like "6 months" or "3 months" as an estimate of survival after they lost all their business to walmart. Another wave of change has been moving in slow motion for years with online purch…

Here’s an episode of econtalk where the guest worked at Walmart and described his experiences https://www.econtalk.org/platt-on-working-at-wal-mart/

Worth a listen if you want a counter point to the “wal mart is evil” trope.

Re: The reason the local mall is failing (2018)

#35

Post by stormbrew »

jimbob45 wrote: post #33
m463 wrote: post #32

I think this is obvious if you watch the walmart movie[1] There was an interesting scene in the movie where a small town was getting a new walmart, and they drove around downtown. They pointed at each of the stores and assigned values like "6 months" or "3 months" as an estimate of survival after they lost all their business to walmart. Another wave of change has been moving in slow motion for years with online purch…

To be fair to Wal-Mart, that seems to have less to do with Wal-Mart being a devious corporation and more that the lower class can scarcely afford to live anymore without the ultra-efficient economies of scale Wal-Mart provides. In a world with a livable minimum wage, I imagine Wal-Mart would have less of a captive consumer base.

I mean, part of why that is the case is that walmart itself depresses wages. It comes to town, undercuts other businesses, those businesses close, people need jobs, they go to work at walmart (possibly at a loss of income but probably a loss of hours even if not), and then they can't afford to shop anywhere but walmart anymore. And the cycle continues.

It's not like they're doing this in a snidely whiplash scheme-y sort of way but they are still doing it, and they're not unaware of or innocent in the effect they have.

Re: The reason the local mall is failing (2018)

#36

Post by galkk »

jcims wrote: post #7

This seems like a woefully incomplete analysis. The same basic evolution happened in manufacturing and for largely the same reasons. Boutique job shops replaced by industralized mass production facilities replaced by abstracted labor and infrastructure in offshore contracts. Boutique stores worked downtown because there was no better option, not because it was great. Who wants to drive downtown to get shoes or a tie?…

> Boutique stores worked downtown because there was no better option

100 times this. People really romanticize "mom and dad shops", forgetting many of their issues - often limited/no selection of large/tall/petite clothes, worse/non-existing return policies and often lack of parking space/restrooms.

Re: The reason the local mall is failing (2018)

#37

Post by cgriswald »

lurquer wrote: post #4

Having lived through the peak of the US Mall years, I blame the downfall on... Nintendo. The mall was a social center for teens. A lot of money got pumped into the malls from that age group. Teen boys would go for the arcade. Teen girls would follow, checking out the guys. Many stores catered to that demographic (Spencers, HotTopic, makeup and cheap jewelry stores, etc.) In short, it was a place to go on casual dates…

I’m younger than you I’d guess by a decade. We still hung out at malls. The internet? Maybe. Super Mario Bros? No. We even still had some arcades, though not as many as their were.

Re: The reason the local mall is failing (2018)

#38

Post by enriquto »

jcims wrote: post #7

This seems like a woefully incomplete analysis. The same basic evolution happened in manufacturing and for largely the same reasons. Boutique job shops replaced by industralized mass production facilities replaced by abstracted labor and infrastructure in offshore contracts. Boutique stores worked downtown because there was no better option, not because it was great. Who wants to drive downtown to get shoes or a tie?…

> Who wants to drive downtown to get shoes or a tie?

I had a hard time understanding the meaning of this sentence, and its context. The idea of "driving downtown to go shopping" is backwards to me. You live downtown, and walk a few meters to the shop.

Then I realized that you may be from the USA, where your cities seem to be turned inside out. You are indeed a funny country.

Re: The reason the local mall is failing (2018)

#39

Post by fakedang »

axaxs wrote: post #15

One interesting article I read but can't be bothered to find now mentioned how we could better utilize malls by making top floors of condos. It was such a simple but seemingly good suggestion. Already have huge amounts of parking, tons of floor area for convenience, and stores would change to those that better served the tenants. And as that happens, more people from outside would be incentivized to visit. Perhaps th…

Multipurpose is way common outside the US. And yes, I've visited and still visit sometimes the local coffeeshop or Maccies in my pajamas. It's nice early in the morning.

An interesting innovation, by my uncle who runs a healthcare group, was converting disused malls into hospitals. The unused central atria works well since hospitals need that airy feel, and apparently it's cheaper to refurbish a mall into a hospital than build one from scratch (mostly because malls tend to be distressed properties today, which you can pick up for pennies on the dollar). He's currently focusing on expanding in ex-London cities in the UK.

Re: The reason the local mall is failing (2018)

#40

Post by enriquto »

axaxs wrote: post #15

One interesting article I read but can't be bothered to find now mentioned how we could better utilize malls by making top floors of condos. It was such a simple but seemingly good suggestion. Already have huge amounts of parking, tons of floor area for convenience, and stores would change to those that better served the tenants. And as that happens, more people from outside would be incentivized to visit. Perhaps th…

> we could better utilize malls by making top floors of condos

You are a few steps away to rediscovering the European city (if by an extremely convoluted way).

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