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Norwegian experts say blood clots were caused by the AstraZeneca Covid vaccine

sciencenorway.no

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Re: Norwegian experts say blood clots were caused by the AstraZeneca Covid vaccine

#151

Post by 5cents »

chithanh wrote: post #147
afavour wrote: post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

40 cases of blood clots (and 0 confirmed deaths) in 17 million 538K confirmed deaths in 328 million (the US population) They really aren't comparable. EDIT: see replies below for details about deaths connected to the clots. I take that back. But my general point still stands, COVID is far, far more dangerous than the vaccine.

> But my general point still stands, COVID is far, far more dangerous than the vaccine. It is worth breaking that down by age, sex, and other risk factors. For an 80 year old male obese smoker, who lives in a country with high COVID-19 rates, I have no problem believing that COVID-19 is more dangerous than the AstraZeneca vaccine. For a 25 year old female with no comorbidities, who lives in a country with low COVID-1…

In Norway, five women below 50 years have died of COVID-19 (in total) and one from the vaccine

Source (in English): https://www.fhi.no/en/id/infectious-diseases/coronavirus/dai...

Re: Norwegian experts say blood clots were caused by the AstraZeneca Covid vaccine

#153

Post by xtracto »

raphlinus wrote: post #92

Not specifically in relation to this latest Norwegian claim, but an excellent backgrounder on the blood clot problem: https://www.sciencemag.org/news/2021/03/it-s-very-special-pi...

Thank you, this article has actual real information.

Re: Norwegian experts say blood clots were caused by the AstraZeneca Covid vaccine

#154

Post by auiya »

dekhn wrote: post #149
auiya wrote: post #17

Astra Zeneca says it's less than 40 cases in 17 million. Are those numbers accurate? That seems like quite a small population affected.

most news reporting about adverse health events makes the problems sound far more severe and significant than they really are.

And most brands with a product to sell make the problems seem far less severe and significant than they really are, which is why we need to question both.

Re: Norwegian experts say blood clots were caused by the AstraZeneca Covid vaccine

#155

Post by tomjen3 »

sceadu wrote: post #115
skeeter2020 wrote: post #110

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I heard a doctor comment yesterday that seems to summarize what's happening: "It's perceived as worse to actively kill someone than to kill them through inaction; the scale doesn't matter." So even if the vaccine is responsible for these deaths, the people making the administration decisions will choose having 10x or 100x the number of people die from not getting them vaccinated quickly. So much for "science-based de…

Trolley problem with a needle and some dice

Covid has a certain chance of killing any particular person (not the same chance for each person), the vaccine has a much lower chance than average COVID and prevents the COVID chance.

Re: Norwegian experts say blood clots were caused by the AstraZeneca Covid vaccine

#156

Post by fairity »

lars wrote: post #84

I'm happy this research has been done so quickly, but am somewhat annoyed that the public conversation is so focused on whether or not the vaccine can possibly cause any problems, and not at all focused on the risk management question of what the optimal choice here is. The chance of getting a blood clot seems so low that it may for all I know be equivalent to the risk of dying in the streets while jaywalking to get…

I think if we're talking purely from the perspective of self-interest, many healthy individuals have no reason to get vaccinated. Getting vaccinated takes time and effort, and they can freeload off the large fraction of the population who is clearly going to get vaccinated.

I suspect this freeloading incentive is a big reason govt's haven't used the risk-reward framing as the major selling point for vaccines. That, and the fact that for healthy individuals, there are much larger risks you ought to spend your time worrying about (if you're only looking out for your own best interests).

Re: Norwegian experts say blood clots were caused by the AstraZeneca Covid vaccine

#157

Post by xtracto »

ed25519FUUU wrote: post #109
_fnhr wrote: post #63

With all these vaccines and companies competing with one another I often wonder what is real, what is unstated, and what is a PR stunt against the competition.

Reminds me a little of the Media blitz against hydroxychloroquine early in the outbreak. I knew an out of patent treatment wasn’t going to do it when there’s so much money to be made.

Same with Ivermectin ( https://youtu.be/w3u39moxStQ?t=1570 ). There has been a lot of evidence that at least it helps in something against COVID19. But the fact that there's no money to be made form that prevented laboratories from doing real research, leaving us only with anecdotal evidence from several places that have been using it.

Re: Norwegian experts say blood clots were caused by the AstraZeneca Covid vaccine

#158

Post by bewaretheirs »

afavour wrote: post #61
bewaretheirs wrote: post #50

Earlier quoted context omitted.

7 cases in Germany, with 3 deaths. Patients were aged 20 to 50 years. https://www.pei.de/EN/newsroom/hp-news/2021/210315-pei-infor... https://www.pei.de/EN/service/faq/coronavirus/faq-coronaviru...

Thanks, I’ve updated my comment. I still believe my original point stands.

so what's puzzling is that the fatality rate from this complication is so high in Germany (3 of 7) where it's so much lower in the US and UK. Pausing vaccination with the AZ vaccine in Germany doesn't seem like an overreaction. At the very least, reviewing & communicating best practices for detecting and treating this would be in order.

Re: Norwegian experts say blood clots were caused by the AstraZeneca Covid vaccine

#159

Post by chithanh »

5cents wrote: post #151
chithanh wrote: post #147

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> But my general point still stands, COVID is far, far more dangerous than the vaccine. It is worth breaking that down by age, sex, and other risk factors. For an 80 year old male obese smoker, who lives in a country with high COVID-19 rates, I have no problem believing that COVID-19 is more dangerous than the AstraZeneca vaccine. For a 25 year old female with no comorbidities, who lives in a country with low COVID-1…

In Norway, five women below 50 years have died of COVID-19 (in total) and one from the vaccine Source (in English): https://www.fhi.no/en/id/infectious-diseases/coronavirus/dai...

But did these women have any comorbidities?

Re: Norwegian experts say blood clots were caused by the AstraZeneca Covid vaccine

#160

Post by SonicTheSith »

Most people here got the math wrong... it is not x of 17mil. but X number of cases for women vaccinated with AZ in the age group 20-50.

This kind of thromboses seem to happen mostly to women. While there is no correlation yet found, such kind of thrombosis are until now mostly caused by hormones from for example anti baby bills or other situations where the hormonal balance is not normal.

Most that were vaccinated in the uk with AZ are old people. The cases only happened in countries were AZ was used to vaccinate younger people such as health care workers. While pfizer and moderna were used only for old people. Plans were made to soon start wide spread vaccination using AZ on those below 50.

If the hypothesis holds that women below age 50 have a risk larger than dying from covid to get the brain thrombosis. We might need to give AZ only to men + women older than or younger than N years.

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