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Norwegian experts say blood clots were caused by the AstraZeneca Covid vaccine

sciencenorway.no

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Re: Norwegian experts say blood clots were caused by the AstraZeneca Covid vaccine

#61

Post by afavour »

bewaretheirs wrote: post #50
afavour wrote: post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

40 cases of blood clots (and 0 confirmed deaths) in 17 million 538K confirmed deaths in 328 million (the US population) They really aren't comparable. EDIT: see replies below for details about deaths connected to the clots. I take that back. But my general point still stands, COVID is far, far more dangerous than the vaccine.

7 cases in Germany, with 3 deaths. Patients were aged 20 to 50 years. https://www.pei.de/EN/newsroom/hp-news/2021/210315-pei-infor... https://www.pei.de/EN/service/faq/coronavirus/faq-coronaviru...

Thanks, I’ve updated my comment. I still believe my original point stands.

Re: Norwegian experts say blood clots were caused by the AstraZeneca Covid vaccine

#64

Post by marvin »

cranekam wrote: post #36
rambojazz wrote: post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think the argument for suspending the vaccine was that the number was still significantly higher than the expected value, despite being very low.

40 out of 17 million is 0.0002%. Surely 0.0002% of any cohort go on to develop blood clots? I'd certainly pick those odds over being unvaccinated.

If the risk turns out to be 1 in 50.000, which would be on the conservative side if the observations from Norway are correct, it's not a clear-cut question in a country with low incidence of Covid. Especially if other vaccines are available with a small delay.

The British tool for calculating covid risk puts risk of death as 1 in 500.000 for a healthy 25-year old, and risk of hospital admission as 1 in 13.000.

Must also add to this the public's willingness to vaccinate in the face of these numbers, both now and in the future. It's a shifting of risk from high-risk groups to low-risk groups.

Re: Norwegian experts say blood clots were caused by the AstraZeneca Covid vaccine

#65

Post by rob74 »

sobriquet9 wrote: post #43
simonh wrote: post #5

Interesting, and very concerning if it's true. I was given my first shot of the AZ vaccine on Monday afternoon, so I was aware of the reports of blood clots at the time although only in outline. I just don't understand how come the same reaction hasn't been seen in the millions of people vaccinated with AZ outside Norway (edit - it has been, thanks for the info, none of the articles I've come across properly explaine…

Your options are not just A) take the AZ vaccine right now, and B) never take any vaccine. You can also wait until more data becomes available, or until another vaccine becomes available. Doing so does carry some incremental risk, but this risk is smaller than the risk of not getting vaccinated ever.

> until another vaccine becomes available

Well yeah, other vaccines (Biontech/Pfizer and Moderna) with far fewer side effects and apparently higher effectivity are already available, and that's part of the problem. It's not that the potentially fatal blood clots are the only side effect of the AstraZeneca vaccine, people also pretty often get infection symptoms (fever etc.), which is of course not that bad, but still unpleasant. So you can't really blame people for wanting to get the better vaccine...

Re: Norwegian experts say blood clots were caused by the AstraZeneca Covid vaccine

#66

Post by hvidgaard »

afavour wrote: post #26
runawaybottle wrote: post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sort of the theme with Covid ultimately. I’m curious who will have the guts to re-examine the global shutdown as an exaggerated reaction as we go forward.

40 cases of blood clots (and 0 confirmed deaths) in 17 million 538K confirmed deaths in 328 million (the US population) They really aren't comparable. EDIT: see replies below for details about deaths connected to the clots. I take that back. But my general point still stands, COVID is far, far more dangerous than the vaccine.

I think it's even more nuanced than that. The people suffering issues here are young people that would otherwise probably not die or have serious long term effects of Covid-19. People are going to think "Why should I risk death, even if it's just a relatively small risk?"

Re: Norwegian experts say blood clots were caused by the AstraZeneca Covid vaccine

#67

Post by marcosdumay »

Shorel wrote: post #14
simonh wrote: post #5

Interesting, and very concerning if it's true. I was given my first shot of the AZ vaccine on Monday afternoon, so I was aware of the reports of blood clots at the time although only in outline. I just don't understand how come the same reaction hasn't been seen in the millions of people vaccinated with AZ outside Norway (edit - it has been, thanks for the info, none of the articles I've come across properly explaine…

I say both risks are totally related. Covid itself causes blood clots. The solution here has been to administer aspirin to Covid patients. So the solution for the AstraZeneca vaccine should be the same. Vaccinate people, give them some aspirin over two weeks, just in case.

I wonder is the aspirin won't bring higher risk than the vaccine.

The numbers people are passing around are way too low. Low enough that it's difficult to understand why somebody is taking any action at all instead of reading it as a minuscule statistical fluctuation.

Re: Norwegian experts say blood clots were caused by the AstraZeneca Covid vaccine

#68

Post by nottorp »

vibrio wrote: post #13
dt3ft wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is the source article, with likely a lot more information: https://www.vg.no/nyheter/innenriks/i/QmwR1V/professor-om-mi...

per google translate, it may have more information but not more data, nor independent confirmation of the experts' opinions.

Actually this is independent testing for the AZ vaccine. As in, the only testing not done by AZ themselves.

It all depends on how you look at it...

Re: Norwegian experts say blood clots were caused by the AstraZeneca Covid vaccine

#69

Post by jansan »

logicchains wrote: post #41
groby_b wrote: post #33

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm fully for that. And when we find out that a hard lockdown would have saved hundreds of thousands of lives, I hope we'll also have the guts to lock up the people who advocated against it, simply to further political goals. And try them for murder.

How about trying for murder the people who advocated the global "soft" lockdown that plunged hundreds of millions of people in poor countries into poverty ( https://www.worldbank.org/en/news/press-release/2020/10/07/c... ) and killed hundreds of thousands of children ( https://www.reuters.com/article/us-health-coronavirus-childr... ), just to increase the life expectancy of their 80 year old grandparents by a year or…

It did not even, or only marginally, increase the live expectancy of the over 80 year old.

Re: Norwegian experts say blood clots were caused by the AstraZeneca Covid vaccine

#70

Post by marvin »

GavinMcG wrote: post #59
marvin wrote: post #28

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Time will tell, but I'd put my money on a lot of undiscovered cases in Europe and the UK. Vaccinations have mostly been in elderly people who are at high risk of health complications anyway, it's only recently that younger populations started receiving the vaccine. And Norway is among the most paranoid of these countries, with good health data and monitoring. Norway has also had at least three serious cases with 130.…

> Norway has also had at least three serious cases with 130.000 people vaccinated, so the incidence is certainly higher than 1 per 2.3 million. That's not how numbers work. You can't look at California, for example, and conclude that because 63% of voters chose Biden, his national vote share is certainly higher than 52%.

It's 1 in 43.000 (Norway) versus 1 in 2.3 million (AZ numbers). That's a two orders of magnitude difference. While I can amend my statement to agree it's not certain that local factors and randomness haven't affected the outcome that much, it's a very suspicious observation.
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