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Australia: Sex consent app proposal sparks backlash

bbc.co.uk

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Re: Australia: Sex consent app proposal sparks backlash

#81

Post by mam2 »

im3w1l wrote: post #73
rebelos wrote: post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Being sexually active is particularly dangerous for heterosexual women. It's nearly impossible to prove a rape case in court. Because of this, there has been some groundswell of support for relaxing the burden of proof in rape cases to a standard that might ultimately permit some false accusations to result in wrongful convictions (a horrifically bad idea that would likely be a Pandora's box imo). If you reduce this…

So one thought I had: You can relax the burden of proof without having false accusations if you disincentivize accusations. It could work like this: If a woman accuses a man of rape, you accept it as true no questions asked. You imprison her for a month, and imprison him for two years.

you are insane

Re: Australia: Sex consent app proposal sparks backlash

#82

Post by kolinko »

viraptor wrote: post #70
oilbagz wrote: post #67

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Because withdrawn-consent can be used offensively. False rape accusation do happen and have resulted in many, many ruined lives - of people who legitimately and honestly thought they had consent, where the court later did not agree. Ignorance of this fact doesn't support your argument.

I don't disagree false accusations happen. I'm saying that it's shitty to bring them up when a legitimate change of mind is discussed. Yet people keep popping up whatabouting this one, like someone's just waiting to accuse them of something.

If you want to make a change in society, you need to consider the risks invilved.

It’s important to see how prone to abuse is a new law that will be introduced.

Re: Australia: Sex consent app proposal sparks backlash

#83

Post by 7952 »

krageon wrote: post #13
mam2 wrote: post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yeah. I feel no one is able to realize that at the end of the day, the bottom line is that there will NEVER exist a way to PROVE consent without doubt. Even if you say yes you could say no later. Even if you have marks, it could be some weird rough sex / kink thing. Am i really the only one to see it ?

Part of being human and interacting with other humans is a certain level of uncertainty. To a lot of people, uncertainty is fundamentally scary and unacceptable. They look at other people (and to some extent themselves) and hate what they see there. Then they try to deny that essential nature through exerting more and more control over what they see. Fundamentally, I think it is indicative of a failing in modern soci…

Even if you do everything right you can still end up hurting someone. And that should feel bad, regardless of what you intended. I think taking responsibility for that potential harm is just part of being a grown up. You have to accept your own vulnerability. And hurting others is bad regardless of technicalities.

Re: Australia: Sex consent app proposal sparks backlash

#84

Post by chosenbreed37 »

oilbagz wrote: post #19
rodgerd wrote: post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Or you could - and I know this is a novel idea - treat people well and not be rapey.

Its not just a matter of 'not being rapey' - its a matter of agency over the sexual act. If you get consent from your partner, have sex with them, and then your partner changes their mind about it afterwards - for any reason they determine under their own agency, what is to be done to avoid the danger of being falsely accused of not having gained consent, other than to simply abstain? If consent can be retracted afte…

Perhaps the surveillance state might save the day. If the sequence of interactions is recorded a jury could review it and decide if any consent was given or given and subsequently withdrawn at any point :-)

Re: Australia: Sex consent app proposal sparks backlash

#85

Post by throwawayhehe »

skohan wrote: post #24

I have a theory that these kinds of proposals are driven by an unbalanced view of the nature of human sexuality. In other words, if you are someone who works with victims of sexual assault and sexual violence, you would have so much exposure to all the ways in which sex can go wrong that it would be easy to lose perspective on the fact that probably a vast, vast majority of sexual interactions between adults are prob…

On college campuses in the US, approximately 1 out 4 young women report being "sexually assaulted" during their undergraduate years.

In which case, your claim "that probably a vast, vast majority of sexual interactions between adults are probably perfectly fine and healthy" may be understating the risk here.

Reference: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Campus_sexual_assault#:~:text=....

Re: Australia: Sex consent app proposal sparks backlash

#86

Post by lumberingjack »

young_unixer wrote: post #5

(Off topic) Am I the only one who thinks the whole world is absolutely crazy right now? Like, in general, nothing seems to make sense anymore. When did I get transported into a parallel reality? I think it was 5 years ago after that LSD trip. Ever since then, things are getting increasingly weird /rant

There's people in the thread that want to start a blanket policy in the opposite direction making sure everyone who's having sex is reviewing everyone else after.

Re: Australia: Sex consent app proposal sparks backlash

#87

Post by skohan »

throwawayhehe wrote: post #85
skohan wrote: post #24

I have a theory that these kinds of proposals are driven by an unbalanced view of the nature of human sexuality. In other words, if you are someone who works with victims of sexual assault and sexual violence, you would have so much exposure to all the ways in which sex can go wrong that it would be easy to lose perspective on the fact that probably a vast, vast majority of sexual interactions between adults are prob…

On college campuses in the US, approximately 1 out 4 young women report being "sexually assaulted" during their undergraduate years. In which case, your claim "that probably a vast, vast majority of sexual interactions between adults are probably perfectly fine and healthy" may be understating the risk here. Reference: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Campus_sexual_assault#:~:text=... .

There is some debate[1] around how this statistic is interpreted, but I am not an expert on the matter so I would not challenge it.

Still I believe even if we do take it as true that 1/4 of young women will experience sexual assault during their undergraduate years, this would not disprove my assertion.

1. It could be the case that many of these young women have many, many healthy sexual encounters during university, and one incident would still put them in that statistic, but it could still hold true that a vast majority of overall sexual encounters are unproblematic.

2. Undergraduates in their late teens and early 20's who are still learning how to navigate lives as sexual beings - in a permissive social environment lubricated by alcohol - are likely at an outsized risk of encountering grey areas of consent, or finding themselves in bad situations they haven't learned how to avoid or extricate themselves from. I don't know that this statistic should be generalized to the population as a whole.

Now please understand that I am not trivializing this statistic. I can believe that sexual assault on campuses is a prevalent and serious issue, and causes serious harm to the people who fall victim to it. In this environment, I believe it is warranted to take these matters seriously, and put a strong emphasis on explicit, verbal, enthusiastic consent.

However, I think it is probably not warranted for a happily married couple, or two people in their thirties meeting for a date to operate under the same set of assumptions as a couple 19 year olds at a frat party.

[1] https://time.com/2934500/1-in-5%E2%80%82campus-sexual-assaul...

Re: Australia: Sex consent app proposal sparks backlash

#88

Post by selfishgene »

phs318u wrote: post #2

This is a bit of a hot topic in Australia - and the world (rightly so). A sampling of news articles in the last week: https://www.theage.com.au/search?text=consent With respect to the idea of consent via app - it's simply a dumb idea. People can change their mind, use of the app can be forced, then there's the whole tracking and data privacy issues (the slut-shaming potential of this data can't be overstated, especia…

The lawyer in me asks why would a woman who has consented to 5 other sexual liaisons in the last 3 days be any more entitled to hide the true nature of her sexual behavior from the jury than let's say a member of the LGBTQ community who was involved in a sexual assault case?

It can just as easily be argued that the app which this police officer is proposing in the article is designed to help precisely this type of woman.

Of course details matter. Perhaps an audio recording of the entire encounter that is uploaded to the cloud and deleted after a pre-specified period of time, where both parties give consent orally and report how much alcohol they have consumed in the past several hours, would be a more practical solution to protect the "sexually adventurous" type of woman that the OP is describing here.

Re: Australia: Sex consent app proposal sparks backlash

#89

Post by im3w1l »

rich_sasha wrote: post #76
im3w1l wrote: post #73

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So one thought I had: You can relax the burden of proof without having false accusations if you disincentivize accusations. It could work like this: If a woman accuses a man of rape, you accept it as true no questions asked. You imprison her for a month, and imprison him for two years.

That sounds terrible. If you want to punish someone, just say they raped you, and put up with a month's worth of prison. And also, genuine rape victims will be sent to prison, to top up their already ghastly experience.

> If you want to punish someone, just say they raped you, and put up with a month's worth of prison.

I'm not sure that is necessarily a problem. If someone is willing to suffer in prison to get revenge, then there must be some kind of serious grievance behind it. They say "an armed society is a polite society", and this kind of double edged sword might just lead to a more polite society. It becomes a formalized way of taking vigilante justice basically.

Re: Australia: Sex consent app proposal sparks backlash

#90

Post by im3w1l »

mam2 wrote: post #81
im3w1l wrote: post #73

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So one thought I had: You can relax the burden of proof without having false accusations if you disincentivize accusations. It could work like this: If a woman accuses a man of rape, you accept it as true no questions asked. You imprison her for a month, and imprison him for two years.

you are insane

An insult is not an argument. Go back to twitter.
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