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Why I won't be using Groupon again.. A consumer perspective.

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Re: Why I won't be using Groupon again.. A consumer perspective.

#121

Post by wccrawford »

drivingmenuts wrote: post #33
wccrawford wrote: post #7

It's really sad, because it's not only good restaurants that do the Groupon thing. It can be a good way to advertise your business in addition to the standard (boring) ways. Any restaurant that treats their customers like crap because the customer uses a deal that the restaurant approved is... Well, rude. I don't have much use for rude restaurants. For a lot cheaper, I can cook the food myself, and it's probably as g…

There is a distinct possibility that restaurant owners approved the deal with Groupon but staff is left to suffer the consequences, possibly with little warning from management or the owners. The restaurant business is not exactly raking in the big bucks right now, with the continuing (and deepening) recession, and the owners may have signed on in desperation to claw out whatever money they can.

I'm not sure how it matters what part of the company went wrong. As a customer, you only care about the end product. You don't care whether an owner or a waiter failed to do their job. The responsibility for the failure always lies on the business.

Re: Why I won't be using Groupon again.. A consumer perspective.

#122

Post by Silhouette »

paulca wrote: post #73
mikbetk wrote: post #50

Earlier quoted context omitted.

FYI: 10% isn't standard: 15% is standard, 20% is good, and 25% or more is for great service.

In the UK, 10% is standard and entirely optional. 15-20+ is if you're feeling super generous.

Yes, although it's also common in the UK for restaurants of any level to add 10% to the bill for larger groups of perhaps 6+ or 8+ people in a way that is clearly not meant to be optional.

I never quite understand people who always pay 10% for service here, though. If I have received good service, I will tip perhaps 15% or more, partly to reward the good work financially and partly simply because it shows that I appreciated their efforts and encourages similar behaviour in future. Likewise, I will drop a tip to 5% or even not leave anything at all if service has been poor. In a happy coincidence, this means I tend to be regarded as a good tipper in the kind of place I want to go back to, and a poor tipper only where it doesn't matter. :-)

I also only ever tip in cash, directly into the hands of the waiting staff I've been served by. What they choose to do with it after that is up to them, but you'll never catch me adding some arbitrary amount of "service" onto a bill that's going to be paid on a card machine and go straight into the hands of the management.

Re: Why I won't be using Groupon again.. A consumer perspective.

#123

Post by reduxredacted »

It's interesting to me how many news articles are out lately taking a negative tone toward Groupon. I'm sure that has a lot to do with the upcoming IPO (and I won't be an investor based on the numbers), but I thought I'd share my experience with Groupon, because I've never had anything close to this sort of problem.

We had a $20 for $40 deal at a restaurant owned by a local restauranteur. There were no restrictions other than that the Groupon couldn't be used for the tip, which, on the Groupon indicated that the tip should be made against the total bill because "groupon customers are good tippers" or something like that, I found that statement kinda silly, and I just thought it was common knowledge in the US that you always tip on the pre-discount price.

The place had piqued my interest because it was nearby and it wasn't a chain nor did it appear to be owned by one of the larger businesses that plant unique, but rather predictable, restaurants. That's unusual around here.

There were little/no reviews of this place on Yelp and I can say with certainty that there is no way I would have tried this place at this time were it not for the Groupon. The restaurant was "new", which usually equates to a long line and an unprepared kitchen staff. I have children, and frankly, when there's an opportunity to take my bride out for a night on the town, I'm going to go someplace that I know will be good. Nothing is worse than setting up a date, a baby-sitter, and then getting crappy food/service and overpaying for it. Because of said baby-sitting fees, I also won't venture to a place that's far away. I'd rather spend the money on the meal, not the college kid who sits on my couch and watches TV while the kids sleep.

This place ended up being fantastic. It was also inexpensive even without the Groupon. So to point #1: The only reason I went was because of the discount, but point #2, we've already been back once and even later purchased a $50 gift card for my dad on Father's day. I think a lot of the issues with point #2 have to do with the small business in question. We didn't have any limited "Groupon" menu (and I wouldn't buy a deal that's structured that way ... there would be too much of a temptation for the owner to cheapen it up if they were having a bad Groupon experience), nor were there any alcohol limits (which is really common).

Groupon worked great, at least for me, in discovering a new local business. We're planning yet another trip back in two weeks. My bride and I both wrote a thorough Yelp review afterward, we liked the place so much. Is it a good value for that business or would that money have been better spent advertising in other ways? I have no idea/that probably depends on the business. If he's got the working capital to run at a loss for 6 months, I'm willing to bet this place sticks around, provided the food quality doesn't change (the price could go up substantially, and I'd still continue to eat there).

Re: Why I won't be using Groupon again.. A consumer perspective.

#124

Post by hnsmurf »

bdhe wrote: post #46
hnsmurf wrote: post #27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Groupon customers are definitely poor tippers. I've known a number of waiters to complain about it. The problem is they tip on the Groupon price, not the full price, and are thus tipping something like 40% of what they should be.

The problem is they tip on the Groupon price, not the full price, and are thus tipping something like 40% of what they should be. I am not intimately familiar with the tipping culture (at least in the US), but here are some genuine questions: Is there an inherent reason you tip on the full price? Is it a tax? If tipping is to support staff wages does that mean waiters who serve fancier higher priced food items are en…

Right, we pay our waitstaff next to nothing in terms of hourly rate (it's well below minimum wage) and they make all of their money on tips. If a bill is $50 worth of food, you should tip the waiter on that, even if you got it with a Groupon that cost $25.

Waiters at higher-priced restaurants do make considerably more. Thus those restaurants are far more selective (a lot of waiters at, say, Fridays are new to the trade, not so at Mortons) and the waiters are better. Their jobs are more time-consuming too since there are more courses, wines, they're expected to be more knowledgeable about the ever changing menu, etc.

Re: Why I won't be using Groupon again.. A consumer perspective.

#125

Post by toddtimes »

In the US Groupon guarantees you'll be satisfied with your experience. If you didn't like the restaurant then tell Groupon and get your £18 back. This restaurant sounds like they did a very bad job of designing and executing their Groupon and it hopefully will end up costing them money and reputation.

Unless that policy isn't in place for Groupon in the UK?

http://www.groupon.com/groupon-promise

Re: Why I won't be using Groupon again.. A consumer perspective.

#126

Post by vamsee »

patio11 wrote: post #9

I think you might be overestimating how much insight the waitress has into the business. It may be the case that this was a close, family-held restaurant and they have a daily pow-wow on cost of goods and marketing strategy, but I wouldn't bet that way. My guess? Groupon customers are poor tippers, either from adverse selection or because they either a) attempt to tip with leftover funny-money or b) tip based on the…

If you can put twenty quid in her hand, then you wouldn't be bothering using Groupon, would you?

Re: Why I won't be using Groupon again.. A consumer perspective.

#127

Post by hugh3 »

hnal943 wrote: post #96
lucisferre wrote: post #83

I wasn't aware tipping was all that common in the UK but here in Canada I would be wary of using Groupon for that exact reason. Personally I find tipping to be a nearly meaningless exercise (nearly because occasionally great service deserves a bit extra). Because I live in a country where we are expected to tip, restaurant owners do (and are allowed to with lower minimum wages) expect to be able to underpay their sta…

I'm tired of being responsible for someone elses paycheck. What's the alternative? Do you think the total cost of the night out would go down if the waitstaff was paid more? You're going to be paying their salary one way or the other, it's better that you get some input on their performance I think.

Maybe, but I'm sick of the way the price of everything in America is a lie.

This steak will be thirty dollars! Except it won't be, because you've got to pay tax on top of that, so it's thirty-three dollars! And then you've gotta pay an extra fifteen percent minimum on top of that, only apparently people think you're cheap if you only tip fifteen percent nowadays, and you just know you're going to be too lazy to do the maths properly so you're just gonna wind up rounding it up to forty dollars, aren't you?

On a recent trip back to Australia I did discover everything was very expensive, but at least you pay the price it says and not a penny (errr, cent) more. No mental arithmetic, no stress.

Re: Why I won't be using Groupon again.. A consumer perspective.

#128

Post by wnight »

contactdick wrote: post #18
jcromartie wrote: post #6

I don't use groupon for restaurants or services because I'd probably hate it if I were in their shoes. I think business owners get roped in the same way that artists or programmers do free work because "it'll look great on your portfolio/resume".

I think you're right that they don't love it - and if I were in there shoes I'd have trouble keeping a pleasant demeanour if I was losing money from people being in my restaurant too!

This is opposed to the alternative of traditional advertising, where you're losing money on the people who aren't even in your restaurant.

These deals are reasonable to offer if your overhead is more than your incremental costs, for instance. Or if the look of a full restaurant (and thus the vibe) is more important than making money off of those initial customers.

The joke is groupon taking so much for brokering this. Groupon doesn't do anything to warrant $1 per coupon, let alone 1/4 the face value. If it takes off it'll be on ad-driven sites taking no or very little cut, and/or via the restaurants' websites and facebook pages directly.

Re: Why I won't be using Groupon again.. A consumer perspective.

#129

Post by jamesaguilar »

ghshephard wrote: post #94
patio11 wrote: post #57

Earlier quoted context omitted.

IAmerican tipping culture: there is a near-involiate presumption that wait staff gets tipped N% of the order. Customary practice recently is N is 20. Theoretically, tips are tied to service received. In practice, variation from societal norms is vanishingly rare in polite company. Waiters in higher priced restaurants do make better tips as a consequence of this. That might matter if the culture were designed. It was…

Side note - in California 18.5% is the customary practice for tips, though, to make it easy, you can round up to 20%. No service person will complain. If you get lackluster service, you can point it out with a 15% tip. Poor service gets a 10% tip, and, will make it clear you are unhappy. After 15 years of doing this (I'm from Canada, where tips aren't as proscribed, though they are still expected) I find it awkward a…

I find etiquette fascinating, so I've read some books on it. Particularly, in tipping etiquette, prescriptive books seem to agree about one thing:

In the US, if you're going to tip less than 15%, you should not tip at all. You should leave nothing and ask to speak with a manager to explain why you won't. If the failure in service doesn't rise to that level, then 15% is the minimum polite tip.

Of course, it's your wallet so do what you think is best. But this seems like a reasonable practice, so I follow it. I've actually never had to speak to a manager about service at a restaurant, though.

Re: Why I won't be using Groupon again.. A consumer perspective.

#130

Post by bugsy »

Well I was all set to sympathize, but I don't think it's necessarily unfair that the coupon couldn't be applied to any bottle of wine on the menu.

I do think that if the point of the coupon is to attract new customers, then it is extremely counterproductive and foolish to hide the conditions of the coupon so that people are disappointed, and to treat customers badly for using it. That's just bad management.

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