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The human brain grew as a result of the extinction of large animals: new paper

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Re: The human brain grew as a result of the extinction of large animals: new paper

#81
Our large brains are good for prediction and problem solving in complex environments... capabilities needed to be a generalist rather than a specialist.

Changing food sources may be part of the picture, but it seems more likely that it'd be a need to utilize more varied and unpredictable food sources, not just a different staple, that'd require these capabilities.

It also seems inevitable that there'd have been multiple selection pressures all acting on whatever evolving capabilities we had. Maybe changing food sources upset the status quo, and favored some initial spurt in brain growth, but that in turn would eventually have lead to new social/communication capabilities (and what else?) that would have themselves then acted as differentiators for selection.

The story of the selection pressures acting along our evolutionary history is going to be multifacted and messy, ergo any simple explanation is at best incomplete or wrong. Why didn't all animals preying on these larger animals develop large brains? Where are the sabre-tooth developers among us?

Re: The human brain grew as a result of the extinction of large animals: new paper

#82

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Assuming there is only one big filter, which I think is unlikely. Any mega black swan event is a filter in its own since it's disturbing the system you are adapted to. The worse event is one that disturbs the system you are dependant on. Climat change is terrible, but it could be worse. We depend on oxygen. Gravity. What else await for us ?

If you define a great filter as something that statistically prevents the preponderance of life in the galaxy, then "any mega black swan even" is just noise. With small likelihood, it will wipe out a civilization, (definition of black swan). But for it to be a great filter per definition, it has to somewhat reliably affect all potentially universe-spanning intelligence. All I'm saying is that most likely , once an in…

It may very well be after it ,still due to “black swan” type events. With technology continuing to progress, there may be a point where a small group of dedicated people can construct enough nuclear warheads for a nuclear winter, or engineer the perfect deadly virus with a large incubation period. And/or if we develops AGI, that a single malicious group controlling an AGI can end all life on earth. Technology will continue to advance, and it is easier to destroy than to create.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Global_catastrophic_risk

Re: The human brain grew as a result of the extinction of large animals: new paper

#83
Intelligence is meta-adaptation - adaptation that allows you to adapt to environment changes on the fly (without wasting many generations for mutation and selection).

So, the evolutionary pressure must have been something that required adaptation within one generation - for hundreds of generations.

If the need for adaptation was a single big event - brains wouldn't have the time to evolve - it would be easier to adapt directly. You don't need human-level intelligence to hunt big prey nor small prey.

The changes must have been frequent enough to be worth wasting calories on bigger and bigger brains and supporting them through the time when there were no changes to adapt to.

So I don't think overhunting was it. Every predator species deals with overhunting.

Re: The human brain grew as a result of the extinction of large animals: new paper

#84
> "Wherever humans appeared—whether homo erectus or homo sapiens, we see, sooner or later, mass extinction of large animals... But while other species, like our cousins the Neanderthals, became extinct when their large prey disappeared, homo sapiens decided to start over again, this time relying on agriculture."

Now homo erectus is apparently included as a variety of human, and Neanderthals are still relegated to "cousins".

Re: The human brain grew as a result of the extinction of large animals: new paper

#85

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How about the opposite. Smart humans could hunt dangerous animals. The causality is not obvoius ...

This was my first thought as well.

This is more or less what Yuval Noah Harari lays out in the first section of his book 'Sapiens': 1 - homo sapiens have a cognitive revolution 70k years ago which makes them able to think and communicate in more sophisticated ways. 2 - homo sapiens spread all around the world and wipe out ~all the large animals (including other human species..). His evidence from various places (Australia, America, various islands) of humans arriving then the large animals disappearing is pretty convincing.

Re: The human brain grew as a result of the extinction of large animals: new paper

#86
post #54

I find their hypothesis suspect. > According to the researchers, the decrease in the size of game and the need to hunt small, swift animals forced humans to display cunning and boldness—an evolutionary process that demanded increased volume of the human brain. There are plenty of predators that hunt fast small prey, but don't have advanced cognitive capacities. Cats, for example, are adapted to hunting rodents, but h…

> There are plenty of predators that hunt fast small prey, but don't have advanced cognitive capacities.

The hypothesis doesn’t imply that large brains are necessary for any animal to hunt small fast prey. Cats are really fast and have great senses and built-in weapons and it was probably “easier for evolution” to improve the brain than to build cat-like senses and weapons from scratch.

Re: The human brain grew as a result of the extinction of large animals: new paper

#87

I am convinced that a lot of human traits could be explained if, at a critical point in our evolutional history, our ancestors spend a lot of time wading in shallow water -- not unlike those Japanese macaques who keep warm at winter by dipping in hot springs. [0] Bipedalism, body hair patterns subcutaneous fat, large brain (and, very much related to it, difficult birth), even language -- all these features make a lot…

You are on the target. Fish contain high levels of the fatty acid DHA. DHA is the main limiting factor on the growth of the brain, and needed exogenously (AA needed too, but can be converted internally). Humans cannot easily get access to DHA from things like grass. That’s why large herbivores grow in bodymass, but their brain size (encephalizatiom quotient) stays low. Dolphins, who eat primarily fish, have a much more similar brain to us, and one of the highest encephalization quotients...

Due to changes in geography in Africa, proto-humans found themselves along the shorelines with ample supples of fish for the first time. They ate more DHA, which lead to the growth in brain cells (brains are built of these fatty acids). This extra brain power, through the process known as exaptation (the lesser known evolutionary concept to survival of the fittest), is what is theorized to have then opened the door the human creativity, symbols, language, etc.

Basically, our bigger brains were caused by an increase in the previously limiting nutrient, which was then put to to use for advanced traits, not the other way around as this article purports....

That is a TL;DR as don’t have time to write it all out, but have written and presented on this topic...

https://www.wiley.com/en-us/Human+Brain+Evolution%3A+The+Inf...

Edit: this abstract below has a good summary, and book above is great compilation of papers on the topic.

“The circumstances of human brain evolution are of central importance to accounting for human origins, yet are still poorly understood. Human evolution is usually portrayed as having occurred in a hot, dry climate in East Africa where the earliest human ancestors became bipedal and evolved tool-making skills and language while struggling to survive in a wooded or savannah environment. At least three points need to be recognised when constructing concepts of human brain evolution : (1) The human brain cannot develop normally without a reliable supply of several nutrients, notably docosahexaenoic acid, iodine and iron. (2) At term, the human fetus has about 13 % of body weight as fat, a key form of energy insurance supporting brain development that is not found in other primates. (3) The genome of humans and chimpanzees is https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/16828044/

Re: The human brain grew as a result of the extinction of large animals: new paper

#88
post #17

Kinda weird to bring the Neanderthals into it in the last quote. First, the timeline don't quite fit, there seems to still have been large prey around when the Neanderthals disappeared. Second, I thought the modern view was that they merged back in to the homo sapiens line rather than outright die off?

Some of them did, but recent evidence is showing that European Neanderthals were older than we thought they were, which reduces the interbreeding a bit.

https://phys.org/news/2021-03-neanderthals-europe-earlier-th...

Re: The human brain grew as a result of the extinction of large animals: new paper

#89

I am convinced that a lot of human traits could be explained if, at a critical point in our evolutional history, our ancestors spend a lot of time wading in shallow water -- not unlike those Japanese macaques who keep warm at winter by dipping in hot springs. [0] Bipedalism, body hair patterns subcutaneous fat, large brain (and, very much related to it, difficult birth), even language -- all these features make a lot…

You are on the target. Fish contain high levels of the fatty acid DHA. DHA is the main limiting factor on the growth of the brain, and needed exogenously (AA needed too, but can be converted internally). Humans cannot easily get access to DHA from things like grass. That’s why large herbivores grow in bodymass, but their brain size (encephalizatiom quotient) stays low. Dolphins, who eat primarily fish, have a much mo…

I think all the brain matter can be composed by the body itself, indcluding DHA or DHEA. It is just easier to get big quantities from exogenous sources. The world champion of chess, Carlsen, comes from Norway where they produce the most salmon in the world. You can buy salmon everywhere, relatively cheap comparing to other places.

However i am a vegan for 4 years, and i think my brain never worked better. Everything that comes from animal sources, can be substituted by plants, or from endogenous production of the body.

How about our brain got evolved because of our vocal chords? I didn't see anyone considering that hypothesis. I can personally can imitate many animals, birds or whatever. My ancestors, ancient Greeks said that music is the ultimate art. How about we are making music for millions of years, and our brain processing that information, got so much ahead of all the other organisms?

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