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Why in the world would you own bonds?

bridgewater.com

471–480 of 532 posts

Re: Why in the world would you own bonds?

#471

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Basically what Taleb describes as Skin in the Game: >"Don’t Tell Me What You Think, Tell Me What You Have In Your Portfolio"

Then again, Taleb has little to no respect for most professional investors.

He has tremendous respect for professional investors that understand risk, which is a small minority. He speaks very highly of Soros's investment record.

Re: Why in the world would you own bonds?

#472

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So, I actually have an MS in Quant Finance despite having worked in tech my whole career. There's an old saying, "during a time of crisis all correlations go to 1". People found this out the hard way in 2008. There are all sorts of risks that you can't hedge for or that negate hedges you have in place for other risks, counterparty risk being one of the better known ones.

This hit home for me during the mini-crash a year ago. I was convinced assets like bitcoin or gold or bonds would hold value when the stock market tanked but instead saw everything fall at the same time. I understand the concept of undiversifiable risk, but seeing it play out in practice was eye opening.

Long term US Govt. Bonds like VGLT did very well, increasing in value, in both 08 and Mar '20 covid crash.

Re: Why in the world would you own bonds?

#473

We seem to have an entire generation of people who think "stonks can only go up". Similar views were expressed about houses/real estate in 2007. At 47, I'm probably substantially older than the average HN poster, but having lived through the 2001 dotcom implosion and the 2008 financial crisis has given me some perspective. I'm getting some really bad vibes about the sustainability of the the economy and asset markets…

The roaring 20's are typically left out of evaluations because it was ten years of boom to bust cycles. look it up, it'll look familiar. The market can remain irrational and that was before all the stimulus and QE and now what ever interest rate shenanigans we're about to model off of Japan.

Re: Why in the world would you own bonds?

#474

Earlier quoted context omitted.

From what I can tell, currently WSB is riding the bubble. Or rather their thesis is that a short squeeze will happen. In some conversations they try to justify that the company will actually turn itself around using the capital raised from selling the new generation of consoles, but quickly the conversation turns to the prospect of the squeeze. In other words, most people who are buying GME from WSB advice aren't the…

> but it seems like a hedge fund can just buy the shares from the people they borrowed from That's not how it works. A short position is basically the contract to deliver a stock regardless of its price at that point, so neither the short holder nor the party that gave them the stock in the first place actually hold that stock anymore. Now I don't know this exactly and I am not an expert, but I wouldn't be surprised…

The crux of the situation I don't understand is (a) where does the claim that hedge funds would have to buy all the available shares on the market comes from? and (b) what exactly happens if [a] is true, but I'm not selling my 1 share that they need to return to you the share they borrowed? In this case, do they pay a penalty, does they go out of business and you don't get your share back, or does the whole system collapse on itself?

Re: Why in the world would you own bonds?

#475

Earlier quoted context omitted.

From what I can tell, currently WSB is riding the bubble. Or rather their thesis is that a short squeeze will happen. In some conversations they try to justify that the company will actually turn itself around using the capital raised from selling the new generation of consoles, but quickly the conversation turns to the prospect of the squeeze. In other words, most people who are buying GME from WSB advice aren't the…

When you know CompanyA fires a bunch of people, the price goes up because of the perception that the company will have more capital to leverage. Knowing that an event has happened or expect the consequence of an event (CompanyA gets sued for patent violation) to have an effect on the company, changes the stock price through participation. GME is an interesting case where the event is perceived to be a complex situati…

The difference is that the value of GME isn't in any way connected to its fundamentals here. It is only valuable because of the (supposed) overshorting. Basically, the way I understand it is that everyone is playing poker with tin poker chips. By themselves the poker chips are nearly worthless (tin is cheap), but because suddenly someone owes someone else a whole lot of these chips and there are real green dollars attached to that IOW, the tin chips suddenly are worth a lot. Once that debt is repaid, they become worth only what the tin is worth.

In other words, when the guy that started it all (Roaring Kitty/DFV) testified before congress that the only reason he was buying GME was because he fundamentally thought they were going to be a profitable corporation, that was bullshit. He talks a whole lot about short squeezing the stock elsewhere, so his denial that that's why he did it seems to me to be a lie. On a personal level, he seems shady as hell and the whole thing seems like a setup for others to be left holding the bag.

Re: Why in the world would you own bonds?

#476

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> There's the climate crisis, which is the root cause of the migration crisis. The driver of that is more like unfree markets which always result in mass poverty and misery.

You might want to define unfree markets because American lives with regards to some key metrics seemed to improve more notably when it's markets were comparatively less free in the post ww2 era and china is also doing quite well and manage to get trough the 2008 financial crisis unscathed with it's application of Keynesian economics compared to US/EU.

What a free market is is pretty well known, and an unfree one would significantly deviate from that.

Re: Why in the world would you own bonds?

#477
post #261

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It's hard to tell if this post was satire or something the author genuinely believes.

I was trying to figure this out myself. I don't think you need to stockpile 10 years worth of firewood because firewood may be too expensive in 9 years. I think this is insane on a few levels, but to each their own.

I mean wood would be for a small minority but after being loaded on stocks the alternative is often speculative zero sum type assets where people's savings are indirectly debt or liabilities to other people.

Buying stuff you're going to need later is the opposite of speculation, not zero sum because it puts people to work to create something tangible and right now you get a better return than a lot of safe assets like bonds.

Re: Why in the world would you own bonds?

#478

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This hit home for me during the mini-crash a year ago. I was convinced assets like bitcoin or gold or bonds would hold value when the stock market tanked but instead saw everything fall at the same time. I understand the concept of undiversifiable risk, but seeing it play out in practice was eye opening.

Long term US Govt. Bonds like VGLT did very well, increasing in value, in both 08 and Mar '20 covid crash.

This is good to know. I think most of the modelling I looked at in the past used medium duration bonds as a proxy for the bond market as a whole.

I wonder what TIPS did during the same timeframe actually.

EDIT: I looked at VGLT and the mean annual return is extremely low, roughly 0.75%. I like the seemingly negative correlation with equities but I'll need to do some modelling to see if it's worth the massive hit in average expected return.

Re: Why in the world would you own bonds?

#479

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Forcing a fiscal crisis is a great way of accomplishing some political goals so I wouldn't be complacent about this risk.

Fair enough — I’d wager large city bankruptcies remain quite possible under the next GOP Administration. The most liberal Republican POTUS of my own lifetime said “No” to NYC: https://www.nydailynews.com/new-york/president-ford-announce...

McConnell is on the record saying he doesn't think the government should be bailing out blue states for what he has deemed profligate spending, so no need to look back to 1975.

https://www.mcconnell.senate.gov/public/index.cfm/pressrelea...

> “I said yesterday we’re going to push the pause button here, because I think this whole business of additional assistance for state and local governments needs to be thoroughly evaluated. You raised yourself the important issue of what states have done, many of them have done to themselves with their pension programs. There’s not going to be any desire on the Republican side to bail out state pensions by borrowing money from future generations.”

Re: Why in the world would you own bonds?

#480

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm not pointing to his commentary on Bitcoin or whatever. I was just stating a fact, that Dimon isn't considered brilliant by any Mark by industry insiders in finance, just lucky during 08. He has been wrong on a lot of things, even though I actually agree with his crypto thesis.

I’m not sure what you mean, his bank was the strongest and most highly capitalized during 2008. He famously had to be brow beaten into accepting federal bailout money. And brilliant doesn’t mean perfect. he’s had his share of mistakes, but his business record is one of the best.

a.) Jamie Dimon had nothing to do with JPMorgan's strong financial position in 2008. He just lucked into the fact that JPM was not exposed to MBSs as heavily as the others. JPM did get exposed mightily in the flash crash of 2012 though, and that was under his watch.

2.) Where do you get this info that he was "brow-beaten" into accepting Fed money? Many of the banks, including others such as Wells Fargo and Boa didn't need the money either. That was just Hank Paulson's way of compensating them for the really expensive acquisitions, which none of the banks wanted to do really (JPM got Chase, Wells Fargo got Wachovia, BoA got Merrill Lynch, Buffett got Goldman Sachs and Lehman was left to die).

3.) There are way more brilliant bankers and financiers than Dimon in the financial industry. Steven Schwarzman and Peter Peterson built a behemoth investment firm from the ground up. Sergio Ermotti just engineered one of the best turnarounds for a big bank at UBS. Blankfein and now Solomon effectively shifted GS from their S&T desks to give more power to the Strats Tech teams, effectively changing the culture at GS, a sector where JPM is effectively lagging in spite of being the largest bank with the biggest resources. And this is not even taking into account some of the more brilliant bankers abroad.

Compared to nitwists like Thain or Corbat or whoever, sure Jamie Dimon beats them. But there are way more brilliant bankers who actually built something. Jamie is the classic example of happened to be at the right place at the right time.

I honestly don't know how this hero-worship of Dimon came to be - maybe it's those memes they have running around.

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