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GitHub, fuck your name change

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Re: GitHub, fuck your name change

#781

I want to share my own reactions to the name change since this is a really interesting topic. For context, I'm an African American, so many of my ancestors were slaves. - The first time it occurred to me that "master" in this context could offend anyone was when GitHub changed the name (and broke my workflow). - My immediate reaction was, "this change is by white people for white people," where "white" means anyone w…

As another black SWE, I'll add that I disagree with your perspective. I think the name change does more harm than good because it trivializes the movement. If the goal is to change minds and open hearts then where appropriate, we should endeavor to communicate in ways that will be well received by those who need to hear the message . Stuff like this is just preaching to the choir and alienating the rest, but also not…

The worst I have seen is the media's failure to cover that Google - and probably Microsoft too - blacklisted historic black universities for over a decade. This a juke, a pump fake - not something substantial.

Re: GitHub, fuck your name change

#782
Stuff like diversity training and wokeness and virtue signaling is all counter productive. What you've done is planted the seed of discrimination where there was none to begin with. Congratulations.

Re: GitHub, fuck your name change

#783

I want to share my own reactions to the name change since this is a really interesting topic. For context, I'm an African American, so many of my ancestors were slaves. - The first time it occurred to me that "master" in this context could offend anyone was when GitHub changed the name (and broke my workflow). - My immediate reaction was, "this change is by white people for white people," where "white" means anyone w…

> Thus it is a useful reminder of the implicit bias that contributes to the lack of diversity in tech.

Implicit bias is made to be the boogeyman when it reality, it is probably a very a small fraction of the cause of "lack of diversity" in tech, if at all. Anyone who has attended computer science courses in college anytime would know the number of black students were little to none. It has always been a pipeline problem from the education side of things. To say that typing a word that so happens to have a relation to slavery caused a "lack of diversity" in tech is the biggest farce in this industry and it is extremely sad to see this line parroted by many in the industry. I expect to be heavily downvoted and even flagged for "wrongthink" but I think it tells a lot about how irrational and unhealthy our state of discourse is in today's world.

Re: GitHub, fuck your name change

#784
post #691

Please name one country that never had slavery?

Well, as it was discussed in another thread, in another culture/language it may be totally not about slavery. I mean the word "master", which comes from a common Latin root, in different languages it's evolved into a different meaning. So for Americans, it has an association with slavery (which I'm surprised to learn), but exactly the same word "master" in another language means just "doing good work".

I think this idea that “master” is associated so narrowly in English is ignorance, perhaps even willful. It obviously has broader meaning depending on context, and I would argue that the majority of its use is disassociated entirely with the history of the American slave trade (just think through examples and count them).

It also occurs to me that having these kinds of fights means people are running out of meaningful struggles, like we’re trying to wring out the last 5% and it gets inefficient because it starts doing harm as well. Then you see these hoaxes like Smollett and others and start thinking that the demand for egregious behavior exceeds supply in the US. It can happen, but it’s surprisingly rare given the state of conversation and rhetoric in this country.

Re: GitHub, fuck your name change

#785

With computers there is often a master/slave relationship, there is one system that's in near absolute control of another. It's practical and there's no ethical issues, the slave computer doesn't feel anything. Of course, with human beings it's a completely different story, but we're talking about computers. As far as human beings, the problem was (and is) slavery, it's not the word "master". Especially in the US, th…

> If something is "black and white", there's a clear right and wrong. In our language, "black" is synonymous with "wrong", and yet this word with negative connotations is used for an entire race of people.

I don't think most people think like that. Black and white in that meaning is used in very specific contexts, not in general. Nobody thinks that a "black and white film" is about moral issues. In German, "black on white" (schwarz auf weiß) refers to (usually black) ink on (usually white) paper and nobody has race on their mind when they say it. We're not wearing black at funerals "because it's wrong that somebody died". Black numbers are good ("schwarze Zahlen schreiben" = "writing black numbers" = earning money), red numbers usually aren't. Waving the white flag isn't great. Black/brown bread is delicious, and so is Schwarzbier if you're into stronger tastes in beer, and you can get black-out drunk with enough of it. There's really no association with Africans with that usage of "black".

I have a feeling that a lot of people believe that first came racism and Europeans looking down on Africans and then came "black = bad" associations in language. There was no European colonialism back then, Northern African slave raiders regularly went on slave raids to (mostly Southern) Europe etc. The use of black in that sense is, at least in German, at least 1200 years old, long before significant contact between Central Europe and Africa.

Re: GitHub, fuck your name change

#786
post #429

Saying that the left spends too much effort on rhetoric might be valid criticism, but focusing on it as reasons to "walk away from the left" (which not too many black Americans are doing, BTW) is disingenuous. Sure, the left talks about rhetoric, but it also fights for higher wages, civil liberties, healthcare, affirmative action, investment in education, workers' rights, and voting rights. It's fine not to like ever…

We detached this subthread from https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=26488090.

Re: GitHub, fuck your name change

#787
As a black man in tech, I can say its always frustrating to me when a company tells me what I should be offended by. The master word has never even crossed my mind in that way, I've always thought of it as in the music term. Its one of those settle racist things that I've noticed time and time again in tech. Its as if a bunch of white people come together to prove how "not racist" they are to their other white friends. They start to try to out do each other so much It starts to have the opposite effect and alienates people that just want to be treated normal, not like former slaves.

Re: GitHub, fuck your name change

#788
post #650

I want to share my own reactions to the name change since this is a really interesting topic. For context, I'm an African American, so many of my ancestors were slaves. - The first time it occurred to me that "master" in this context could offend anyone was when GitHub changed the name (and broke my workflow). - My immediate reaction was, "this change is by white people for white people," where "white" means anyone w…

Black SWE here as well, highly disagree with this. If Microsoft/Github wanted to issue "a useful reminder of the implicit bias that contributes to the lack of diversity in tech", they could've founded an non-profit dedicated to training and job placement for BIPOC and underrepresented white women, they could've kept a continuous banner on their site that linked to relevant legislation, initiatives, causes, etc. They…

I just want to quote because in my opinion your last sentence is right on & bears repeating: "The FTA points out how Microsoft is changing the name of master with their right hand, but supplying facial recognition software to police to identify protesters and mistake Black folk for Gorillas with their left hand."

On an individual level, I don't find it useful to get too worked up about name changes. Pronouns, names, whatever -- if someone's got a strong feeling I'll use what they want. You know why? (rhetorical HN you, not imbnwa in particular) Talk is cheap. Follow the money, though, the actual money, and supplying crappy facial recognition software that allows mass surveillance and leads to unsupportable arrest of innocent people is $$$. Selling a shitty "AI" program to screen resumes that uses a model that tells you a name like Jared is the best predictor for getting hired is $$$$. Perpetuating inequality through crappy AI/ML design is $$$$, and then noting that it exists and charging to "fix" it is $$$$$! As the beauty and pharma industries know, the best way to make money is to introduce a problem and then introduce a "cure" six months later.

Re: GitHub, fuck your name change

#789
I think this whole freak out is just dumb.

It’s just a name. It needs an identifiable name be it Master, main, develop, hell you could call it beavis and it would mean the same thing.

Or don’t.

It just don’t matter.

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