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I self-learned to code at 30

kaapi.team

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Re: I self-learned to code at 30

#101

Post by codazoda »

asmr wrote: post #97

Not a big fan of these survivorship bias blog posts. I've been fiddling with code since I was about 11 years old (ActionScript for Club Penguin cheat tools as well as some Visual Basic). I got pretty serious in High School and learned Java as well Python. I am now pretty comfortable in the web stack as well as C, but still do not have the confidence to become a developer. I don't get how people can spend roughly 3 mo…

I'm a 35 year veteran programmer, so I might not remember clearly, but I totally disagree with this. You will NEVER cover all the core areas of CS, there are too many. So, most developers specialize, somewhere. You can get pretty good at some core thing in 6 months and I give you permission to call yourself a programmer as soon as you have successfully built, and regularly use, something you wanted for yourself.

Re: I self-learned to code at 30

#102

Post by robertakarobin »

asmr wrote: post #97

Not a big fan of these survivorship bias blog posts. I've been fiddling with code since I was about 11 years old (ActionScript for Club Penguin cheat tools as well as some Visual Basic). I got pretty serious in High School and learned Java as well Python. I am now pretty comfortable in the web stack as well as C, but still do not have the confidence to become a developer. I don't get how people can spend roughly 3 mo…

In my opinion, it's not about knowing all the core areas of CS — it's about being OK with the unfamiliar. It's about being confident that if someone hands you a problem outside your comfort zone, you'll be able to search for and find the answers necessary to solve the problem.

I'm a senior engineer, but have never taken a CS class, and have never been able to get past page 1 of any programming book. Possessing knowledge isn't what makes me successful at my job. There is simply far too much knowledge required in this job, and my memory is too sketchy, for me to learn and retain all of it. What makes me successful is that (a) I have a good grasp of how to break projects down into little manageable tasks, and (b) I'm really good at Googling.

For this reason, I do believe that anyone can do it, where the "it" that is being "done" is thinking things through and looking up information, not understanding the ins-and-outs of algorithms and data structures and electronics.

What you're describing is the reason impostor syndrome is so prevalent in the tech industry. Because programming is such a tremendously deep area of study, there will always be people who know things you don't, and this can make one feel inadequate. We're raised to think that being an expert is the same thing as knowing lots of things. In the development world, being an expert is more about being comfortable with what you don't know.

Re: I self-learned to code at 30

#103

Post by ok_coo »

codazoda wrote: post #101
asmr wrote: post #97

Not a big fan of these survivorship bias blog posts. I've been fiddling with code since I was about 11 years old (ActionScript for Club Penguin cheat tools as well as some Visual Basic). I got pretty serious in High School and learned Java as well Python. I am now pretty comfortable in the web stack as well as C, but still do not have the confidence to become a developer. I don't get how people can spend roughly 3 mo…

I'm a 35 year veteran programmer, so I might not remember clearly, but I totally disagree with this. You will NEVER cover all the core areas of CS, there are too many. So, most developers specialize, somewhere. You can get pretty good at some core thing in 6 months and I give you permission to call yourself a programmer as soon as you have successfully built, and regularly use, something you wanted for yourself.

I support this kind of encouragement.

Please, if you've built something that you or someone else has used, you're a programmer/developer.

This field is so broad that I also feel like I don't know what I'm doing with 10+ years of experience. You will never learn/know everything and that's OK.

Re: I self-learned to code at 30

#104

Post by [deleted] »

asmr wrote: post #97

Not a big fan of these survivorship bias blog posts. I've been fiddling with code since I was about 11 years old (ActionScript for Club Penguin cheat tools as well as some Visual Basic). I got pretty serious in High School and learned Java as well Python. I am now pretty comfortable in the web stack as well as C, but still do not have the confidence to become a developer. I don't get how people can spend roughly 3 mo…

[deleted]

Re: I self-learned to code at 30

#105

Post by molsongolden »

asmr wrote: post #97

Not a big fan of these survivorship bias blog posts. I've been fiddling with code since I was about 11 years old (ActionScript for Club Penguin cheat tools as well as some Visual Basic). I got pretty serious in High School and learned Java as well Python. I am now pretty comfortable in the web stack as well as C, but still do not have the confidence to become a developer. I don't get how people can spend roughly 3 mo…

I completely empathize with this feeling but... you can do it.

As you work with more developers, you'll realize (or start to actually believe) that everyone has limitations and is out there figuring things out as they go.

There will always be those pro engineers who seem to understand everything but the average developer is probably less skilled than you've built them up to be.

Re: I self-learned to code at 30

#106

Post by kiba »

asmr wrote: post #97

Not a big fan of these survivorship bias blog posts. I've been fiddling with code since I was about 11 years old (ActionScript for Club Penguin cheat tools as well as some Visual Basic). I got pretty serious in High School and learned Java as well Python. I am now pretty comfortable in the web stack as well as C, but still do not have the confidence to become a developer. I don't get how people can spend roughly 3 mo…

I am not sure if it's a survival bias blog post, but the blogger is a businessman. No matter how much luck is involved, it still takes certain type of skills and character to do it well.

I was an 'aspiring' businessman, but I never was able to execute the hustles and do all the things that a businessman do to make a living at it. I never learned how to do that nor do I possess mental fortitude to do such things. I hardly can deal with stress or perform my adult responsibilities well enough. What makes me think I could take on such a challenge as this?

Luck can't pay much if any role if you don't have any business skills.

I still love the idea of being a businessman, though.

Re: I self-learned to code at 30

#107

Post by Leparamour »

sixQuarks wrote: post #84
twalla wrote: post #77

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Persistence in the face of frustrations along with an actual enjoyment of creating things with code is what got me through. I want to say that this is essentially what "the knack" is for a lot of engineering/programming types. It's the willingness to beat your head against a wall dealing with something unfamiliar until it works and you understand it a little more. Some people can't stand it - for others the dopamin…

That dopamine hit is so delicious when you're learning to code and a bunch of frustrating puzzle pieces finally fit together.

>That dopamine hit is so delicious when you're learning to code

I think you meant 'endorphins'...

Great that you're getting that positive feeling but many people just don't. Just like with the infamous 'runner's high', which I never get. I feel shitty before, during and after running and exercise.

Re: I self-learned to code at 30

#108

Post by swyx »

OP, i just wanted to say that I didn't expect much based on the title but you blew me away with how detailed and well structured this post is. congrats and please keep writing!

Re: I self-learned to code at 30

#109

Post by snejad123 »

revskill wrote: post #25

My experience with learning how to code, is just find some good guide, follow it TO BUILD A REAL USABLE PRODUCT. Learning by making a real usable product is the most important part here, other kinds of learning didn't work for me. P/S: This is different from learning by project. Project mostly is for fun, not a real usable product.

Out of curiosity, why do you believe that the learning process is more pronounced with making a real usable product rather than a fun project ?

Re: I self-learned to code at 30

#110

Post by nonameiguess »

asmr wrote: post #97

Not a big fan of these survivorship bias blog posts. I've been fiddling with code since I was about 11 years old (ActionScript for Club Penguin cheat tools as well as some Visual Basic). I got pretty serious in High School and learned Java as well Python. I am now pretty comfortable in the web stack as well as C, but still do not have the confidence to become a developer. I don't get how people can spend roughly 3 mo…

Hard agree. I can include myself in the group of survivors. I was a military officer commanding tank units until my early 30 and I originally planned to move into the Army's ORSA program, which requires a quantitative background, so went back to school for Applied Mathematics, ended up falling in love with programming, and did a Master's in CS after discharging from the service and here I am years later doing fine. And I don't think I'm lacking in core CS knowledge, either.

But I'm not going to sit here and say "oh, anyone can just go back to school full time while also working full time and complete a grad program at a top ten CS school with a 4.0 GPA and triple their salary within five years." The reality is this world has been set up for people like me to succeed. You see all these posts here about how terrible the Leet Code experience is but I've been working through all of the problem sets in math textbooks for fun since I was 5. I love this stuff and wish I'd have discovered it sooner. My family didn't even own a computer when I was a kid and I had no idea this even existed as a possible career field. But I won spelling bees when I was a kid. I won a television quiz show and got a perfect SAT score. I live for intellectual challenges and love being tested.

If that describes you as well, then great, the knowledge economy is your oyster. But no, that doesn't mean anyone can do it. Even at an elite engineering school and in industry since, I've seen very smart people struggle tremendously through something I figured out in minutes.

Doesn't mean I'm some kind of great or special person. Thanks to spine injuries I suffered in the service, I can hardly get out of bed some days, and for 99% of human history, I'd have been discarded as a worthless piece of trash holding back the rest of the tribe and been thrown to the wolves. I'm just really, really lucky I was born now and not during most of human history.

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