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Lost in Thought: Psychological Risks of Meditation

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Re: Lost in Thought: Psychological Risks of Meditation

#11

Post by rarefied_tomato »

This article discusses how transcendental meditation has induced nihilism and reality disconnect upon some of its vulnerable practitioners.

In my ears, this lends cautionary support for Nietzsche's criticism of stoics and Buddhists. I'm not very knowledgeable here, but roughly his argument is that the avoidance of life's suffering is nothing but an escape from life itself. If one engages with the world, one must deal with pain and joy as a consequence.

On more practical terms, it's always good to measure how your inner model corresponds with reality.

Re: Lost in Thought: Psychological Risks of Meditation

#12

Post by nemo1618 »

asymptosis wrote: post #8

About 17 years ago I tried out some vamachara tantra exercises I found on the web. Heady stuff. It gave me a three week episode of full-blown mania. I only needed four hours sleep a night. I had this wild urge to run and jump everywhere I went. After three weeks, it culminated in an auditory hallucination that was indistinguishable from telepathy. Then the mania suddenly drained and never came back however often I re…

Very interesting. I wonder if meditation acted as a "trigger" experience, much like how heavy use of psychedelics is known (or at least widely believed) to trigger latent schizophrenia in people who are predisposed towards it.

Re: Lost in Thought: Psychological Risks of Meditation

#14

Post by travisjungroth »

This article makes me think that people don’t consider the dosage of meditation enough. Most treatments/practices have some range from ineffective->helpful->harmful. 10 hours of vipassana is maybe a hundred times more intense than 10 minutes of guided meditation. It would be surprising if they both fell into the “helpful” range.

Re: Lost in Thought: Psychological Risks of Meditation

#15

Post by kayodelycaon »

As someone who is bipolar and has had multiple psychotic breaks, this does not surprise me I’m the least.

Put the right stress on any mind, and it will break. I spent four months believing I was a fictional character from my own writing. The experience permanently changed my personality. (See my blog if you’re curious about some of my life experiences.)

My brain is more susceptible to this kind of thing, but it can happen to neurotypical people, usually from traumatic events.

Re: Lost in Thought: Psychological Risks of Meditation

#16

Post by kumarvvr »

asymptosis wrote: post #8

About 17 years ago I tried out some vamachara tantra exercises I found on the web. Heady stuff. It gave me a three week episode of full-blown mania. I only needed four hours sleep a night. I had this wild urge to run and jump everywhere I went. After three weeks, it culminated in an auditory hallucination that was indistinguishable from telepathy. Then the mania suddenly drained and never came back however often I re…

Really curious. Can you give more details?

Vamachara stuff is forbidden and can lead to extremely dangerous reverse effects.

Re: Lost in Thought: Psychological Risks of Meditation

#17

Post by bin_bash »

rarefied_tomato wrote: post #11

This article discusses how transcendental meditation has induced nihilism and reality disconnect upon some of its vulnerable practitioners. In my ears, this lends cautionary support for Nietzsche's criticism of stoics and Buddhists. I'm not very knowledgeable here, but roughly his argument is that the avoidance of life's suffering is nothing but an escape from life itself. If one engages with the world, one must deal…

As a Buddhist myself, that's a poor description of Buddhism. The "suffering" the Buddha spoke about is not general pain, it's a more specific ailment. The word he used was "dukkha" which a lot of modern Buddhists argue more directly translated to "unsatisfactoriness", or as I think of it, "wishing that things were different than the way they are."

That's the specific pain the Buddha teaches about and tries to help with—it's not about becoming numb to the world at all. It's simply overcoming the desire for things to be different than the way they actually are. The method, by the way, is to become more aware of the world and your feelings—not less so.

Disclaimer: I'm just a lay student of Buddhism and far from a teacher myself. This is just my understanding from years of reading about it. Not all Buddhists agree with this perspective, but I believe it's the vast majority amongst Theravadans at least.

Re: Lost in Thought: Psychological Risks of Meditation

#18

Post by tartoran »

asymptosis wrote: post #8

About 17 years ago I tried out some vamachara tantra exercises I found on the web. Heady stuff. It gave me a three week episode of full-blown mania. I only needed four hours sleep a night. I had this wild urge to run and jump everywhere I went. After three weeks, it culminated in an auditory hallucination that was indistinguishable from telepathy. Then the mania suddenly drained and never came back however often I re…

Perhaps this was one of the many possible triggers and not a cause. It’s possible that some stressful events in your life would trigger something similar at a later date. The thing is that once such an episode happens one learns about some limits and how to stay away from them. How is your health now? I used to have some slight hypomanic states which were very productive and creative but would end up with a depressed and brain foggy period before I learned to avoid those triggers. One of those for me was drinking too much coffee, poor sleep hygene and some poorly done or unattended breathing exercises which resulted in a short but very bad period of hyperventilating and a few panic attacks. Some 14-15 years have passed since and have been feeling just normal, if not much better as I have a better diet and a more ballanced lifestyle: exercise, good sleep, etc

Re: Lost in Thought: Psychological Risks of Meditation

#19

Post by naringas »

kumarvvr wrote: post #6

The west (and the east too) has commercialized meditation and yogic practices and reduced them to some pseudo medical amalgam that will solve all your health and mental issues. Per Hindu practices, Meditation is the first, foremost step towards self realization. For attaining liberation and knowing god. It is a tool to calm the mind and prepare it for deeper states of realization (samadhi, nirvikalpa samadhi, etc). I…

> It is just a tool, like a hammer or chainsaw, that serves a greater purpose.

I think it's better analogy to think of it as a technique, like a somersault or a cartwheel. but I'm just nitpicking.

Re: Lost in Thought: Psychological Risks of Meditation

#20

Post by kayodelycaon »

nemo1618 wrote: post #12
asymptosis wrote: post #8

About 17 years ago I tried out some vamachara tantra exercises I found on the web. Heady stuff. It gave me a three week episode of full-blown mania. I only needed four hours sleep a night. I had this wild urge to run and jump everywhere I went. After three weeks, it culminated in an auditory hallucination that was indistinguishable from telepathy. Then the mania suddenly drained and never came back however often I re…

Very interesting. I wonder if meditation acted as a "trigger" experience, much like how heavy use of psychedelics is known (or at least widely believed) to trigger latent schizophrenia in people who are predisposed towards it.

I’m bipolar. My understanding from my own experience is that any attempt to play around with altered states of consciousness is dangerous when you’re already predisposed to psychosis.
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