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Encountering Thomas Sowell

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Re: Encountering Thomas Sowell

#201

Post by tptacek »

pluto9 wrote: post #193
tptacek wrote: post #168

Earlier quoted context omitted.

We've been through this argument, recently, and I'm a little disappointed that you're framing this observation as if that discussion hadn't occurred already. https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=23766155 The implication of your comment is that the alternative to "the nuclear family" is "single-parent families". But the other alternative to nuclear families is "extended families", which you yourself have written about…

So what, you set him straight and now he's never allowed to hold that opinion ever again? Maybe he didn't accept your argument. What a ridiculously pompous comment. Tptacek has spoken, everyone. The matter is settled. We can all go home.

I just checked, and that's definitely not what I meant.

Re: Encountering Thomas Sowell

#202

Post by pluto9 »

tptacek wrote: post #201
pluto9 wrote: post #193

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So what, you set him straight and now he's never allowed to hold that opinion ever again? Maybe he didn't accept your argument. What a ridiculously pompous comment. Tptacek has spoken, everyone. The matter is settled. We can all go home.

I just checked, and that's definitely not what I meant.

How else should one interpret this sentence other than, "I've already corrected you on this, so you should know better"?

> We've been through this argument, recently, and I'm a little disappointed that you're framing this observation as if that discussion hadn't occurred already.

Re: Encountering Thomas Sowell

#203

Post by tptacek »

pluto9 wrote: post #202
tptacek wrote: post #201

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I just checked, and that's definitely not what I meant.

How else should one interpret this sentence other than, "I've already corrected you on this, so you should know better"? > We've been through this argument, recently, and I'm a little disappointed that you're framing this observation as if that discussion hadn't occurred already.

I don't know, but we can be sure that I didn't mean it that way; we now have an authoritative citation for that.

Re: Encountering Thomas Sowell

#204

Post by pluto9 »

tptacek wrote: post #203
pluto9 wrote: post #202

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How else should one interpret this sentence other than, "I've already corrected you on this, so you should know better"? > We've been through this argument, recently, and I'm a little disappointed that you're framing this observation as if that discussion hadn't occurred already.

I don't know, but we can be sure that I didn't mean it that way; we now have an authoritative citation for that.

Indeed we do, straight from the mouth of our lord, who has spoken not once, but twice! Truly this is a blessed day.

Re: Encountering Thomas Sowell

#205

Post by jjeaff »

olalonde wrote: post #107
f154hfds wrote: post #2

> Many people wondered last summer why, for example, on the Black Lives Matter website the organization declared (and has since deleted) a “disruptive” stance on the nuclear family. What did that have to do with mobilizing against police violence? For a long time I was very sympathetic to BLM, I would even have considered protesting with them. It was the above that caused me to rethink my position and eventually deci…

I was sympathetic with the anti police (brutality) movement but I was never convinced that racism was disproportionally responsible for it. Gender seems to be an even greater factor, yet you don't see a "Male Lives Matter" movement. I don't have a strong opinion on the subject though and I'd be open to see some data.

Black males seem to disproportionately die at the hands of police. But BLM is about much more than just death. Death is just a catalyst that makes people notice.

Lots of Black people deal with disrespect and abuse from police on a regular basis. A lot of the seemingly flippant behavior from Black people towards police that we sometimes see during recorded interactions is well earned by years of subtle, and not so subtle harassment by some police officers.

Look up some of Amber Ruffin's videos on her interactions with police growing up in NYC. It's pretty eye opening and all of my Black friends have echoed similar stories.

Another example that comes to mind is the story of the Black women and children that were made to get out of their car and lay handcuffed, face down on the asphalt in the arizona sun while the cops slowly discovered that the car they were driving was not actually stolen and that they had read the plate wrong. Supposedly, the cops tried to handcuff the little 7 year old girl but even fully tightened her wrists were too small.

I have been unable to find a comparable story of an innocent white family of women and children made to lay handcuffed face down like that. I suspect very strongly those same cops would not have treated a white family like that.

Excess deaths at the hands of cops is just a serious symptom of a much larger underlying problem of disrespect and abuse.

Re: Encountering Thomas Sowell

#206

Post by MuffinFlavored »

chmod600 wrote: post #137
MuffinFlavored wrote: post #65

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I have this feeling Sowell isn’t liked/respected by AOC/Pelosi because of how hard he disagrees with them. Can anybody tell me how he is perceived by liberals? Not trying to get political. Genuinely curious if he is an outcast to the left because a ton of what he says seems to fall into “conservative views”.

He's mostly dismissed/ignored by the left.

That's why I thought. Why would you say that is? He's obviously educated and speaks with "facts" that have "references", but it just feels like the left does not like his facts/does not agree with the same conclusion his references reach.

I'm not big into politics but I don't really understand how two different parties can both use "science and data" to reach totally separate conclusions. Which one is lying/wrong?

As a programmer, it just doesn't compute. Input and output and all that.

Re: Encountering Thomas Sowell

#207

Post by jjeaff »

zo1 wrote: post #70
runako wrote: post #50

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> my question is: to whom did all that money go? (The link you provide outlines where the money went.)

The point is that this "decentralized" movement has a central organization that has a lot of money donated to it, and that the central/important tenets of that central organization probably has some measurable influence in deciding which "decentralized" parts of the organization get funding/donations/focus/marketing. So if the "BLM" organization views the nuclear family as something that has to be abolished, then one…

I didn't see anything to suggest that the nuclear family should be abolished.

Just a statement that we shouldn't structure our society in a way that makes it impossible for those not fortunate enough to have been raised in a nuclear family to still succeed.

While I agree we need to communicate that the nuclear family is very important and beneficial to our society, we need to do so without making children of non-nuclear families feel inferior.

Re: Encountering Thomas Sowell

#208

Post by hajile »

m0llusk wrote: post #106
zucker42 wrote: post #79

Every discussion of Sowell online seems to attract fans of his declaring how brilliant he is. It's a bit strange the sort of hero worship he attracts. Personally, I've never seen it; while he seems like a reasonably smart person, his ideas are simply a mix of standard conservatism and condemnation of the intellectual establishment as he sees it. His views on immigration are uninspiring, the reasons he believes the U.…

If you focus on his politics especially in a right-left context that makes sense, but his work touches on many social subjects and has considerable depth. I strongly recommend his book Migrations and Cultures where he documents how migrations tend to involve whole social groups and preserve networks. His conservative confidence seems to be his weakest spot. He is fond of claiming that any attempt to help the poor or…

I don’t remember if he’s ever said anything publicly about UBI.

Milton Friedman was on the record saying UBI is far superior to current welfare because it forces personal responsibility and choice while completely eliminating the massive welfare bureaucratic overhead.

Re: Encountering Thomas Sowell

#209

Post by seneca »

specialist wrote: post #200
ipnon wrote: post #166

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Typically it means children being raised by their biological parents.

So foster kids like me aren't traditional?

No, a foster family is not a traditional family. That's not a value judgement, it's a basic classification. Is there a point to your line of questioning?

Re: Encountering Thomas Sowell

#210

Post by chmod600 »

MuffinFlavored wrote: post #206
chmod600 wrote: post #137

Earlier quoted context omitted.

He's mostly dismissed/ignored by the left.

That's why I thought. Why would you say that is? He's obviously educated and speaks with "facts" that have "references", but it just feels like the left does not like his facts/does not agree with the same conclusion his references reach. I'm not big into politics but I don't really understand how two different parties can both use "science and data" to reach totally separate conclusions. Which one is lying/wrong? As…

Politics is informed by data, but it's not a science. There is no "right" answer (though arguably a lot of wrong ones).

Think of stuff that programmers do argue about. Type systems, databases, architecture, agile development, etc.

Logic is a great tool, but it's also more limited than people realize.

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