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Right to Repair Gaining Momentum

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51–60 of 124 posts

Re: Right to Repair Gaining Momentum

#51
post #4

I definitely think it's a good idea. The other week my girlfriend's Western Digital external drive stopped working, I wanted to open it to figure out if it was the drive itself or the sata-to-USB logic. Took me 20 minutes to open the case, and I damaged it significantly in the process. Turns out that it was only the USB adapter that was out of order, I bought a cheap-o USB 3 case and now it works again. Yesterday I w…

Classic WD. So you dodged a bullet. I had WD drive that USB board failed and that board contained encryption key. So I lost data even if I could install the board from other drive. And they had a nerve to advertise this as a feature pro consumer! (It encrypted the data even if you didn't turn encryption on)

That's some serious bullshit logic from them. What the fuck does encryption do if the key is stored right next to the drive?

Re: Right to Repair Gaining Momentum

#52
post #31
post #8

I was re-reading (ok, actually trying to finish yet again) Zen and the Art of Motorcycle Maintenance and I think some of what Pirsig says at the beginning of the book applies here. Namely, the division between people who just want things to work and hope "somebody" else will step in when a fix is needed, and those who understand the abstraction sometimes leaks, and you need to be able to dig in and at least know how…

Just wondering: if there was a 'right to repair' on computers in the 60's, would Intel have made an integrated microprocessor? I mean: you can't just fix a dead register by replacing it anymore... Lots of electronics have become more reliable by being fully integrated units. I prefer a durable phone to a repairable phone that needs constant replacements.

At the same time, a durable phone is no different to one where you could replace the parts that are simply soldered together in the "durable" phone.

Re: Right to Repair Gaining Momentum

#53
> When your stuff breaks, you should be able to fix it yourself.

This concept is inherently flawed. These complex devices were built by teams of highly skilled and specialized engineers. The concept that you should be able to repair it with a screwdriver and a 6-pack is outdated.

I grew up on a cattle ranch, and we had lots of tractors and equipment -- some of it over 100 years old. I rebuilt an International Farmall Model B Tractor with my Dad when I was 14. And it was a lot of fun to go around to old junk yards and find the parts we needed. This tractor was built in the 1940s and I think that's what people think of when they think tractors.

I learned how clean an maintain simple engines, how to organize parts so I could confidently take something apart and put it back together again, how to bend and weld metal. It was a great project. Totally 100% think every kid should do something like this. When the tractor was done, and repainted, I got to drive it in a parade.

When we were putting that tractor back together... a lot of times bolts needed to be cut, drilled out, holes re-tooled, or just welded back into place. And while it looked fine, there's no way someone should think we were professionals. I'd be scared if someone took that tractor and tried to do real work with it.

There was one place in particular, where I used a bunch of bailing wire to hold a non-visible part where it needed to be held. And it worked OK for driving in a parade. But if someone had attached something to the PTO shaft... and it needed significant torque, I'm guessing the bailing wire MacGyver patch job would have caused catastrophic failure.

And that's fine, if it happens as soon as you do it, but like, what if it happened while you were working in the field, or what if someone else (20+ years later) starts the tractor up and uses it -- not knowing that my splice is in place? It makes the machine fundamentally unreliable, unsafe.

Now... that was an 80 years old tractor. Fast forward to today, when the machines have conservatively 1,000 times more power. Ranchers cut corners all the time... can't wait a week for parts? Just splice something. But how does the software know to account for that? It's expecting a load of 1,000 pounds and it adjusts hydraulics accordingly... but what if due to the "fix" it can now only support a load of 300 pounds?

And let's say someone is hurt? Is that on John Deere? Or the Rancher who bought the tractor 2nd hand at an auction? Is that on the insurance company, that has to insure equipment that costs 10s if not 100s of thousands of dollars that get plugged into the tractor and rely on it operating to spec? It's just such a massive can of worms.

So let's then add the software element. And assume that some fixes are going to not just be hardware, but software-related as well. Would that mean that John Deere, or Apple, or anyone, would have to make their code open-source -- for all of their competitors to review as well? Or provide peer review if you want to make a change? For how long? Like let's assume tractors today last as long as the tractor I rebuilt with my Dad in the 90s... 50 years? Wonder how you even factor in 1/2 a century of support in to the purchase cost. Oof.

Anyway, it's just a mess. People over simplify it, "I should be able to fix my bike, so I should be able to fix this $500,000 tractor..." and at some point it just doesn't scale.

And, like others have said... I really don't want to have to run my phone through some sort of unit testing / compliance check every time I go to get on an airplane. Batteries, and phone software... they're a whole other complex issue. Even what we have now, with 3rd Party batteries... it's pretty risky.

Re: Right to Repair Gaining Momentum

#54
post #3

I don't want a bulky, heavy, non waterproof, and less reliable smartphone (due to more moveable parts) just to have a easily replaceable battery.

They don't throw away the entire iPhone when they replace your battery. Right to repair would mean you as a consumer have access to the tools and hardware needed to make the repair.

Re: Right to Repair Gaining Momentum

#55
post #34
post #3

I don't want a bulky, heavy, non waterproof, and less reliable smartphone (due to more moveable parts) just to have a easily replaceable battery.

That depends, does what you want cause greater harm to society than the alternative? Does manufacturing less repairable devices cause more to be disposed of more quickly? Ideally with the environmental concerns we face, making what we already have last as long as reasonably possible is the least we can do.

This assumes that repairable devices on net cause less waste which may not be the case for smartphones. Lighter, waterproof, with no moving parts for battery swapping can lead to much longer lasting devices.

Re: Right to Repair Gaining Momentum

#56
post #31
post #8

I was re-reading (ok, actually trying to finish yet again) Zen and the Art of Motorcycle Maintenance and I think some of what Pirsig says at the beginning of the book applies here. Namely, the division between people who just want things to work and hope "somebody" else will step in when a fix is needed, and those who understand the abstraction sometimes leaks, and you need to be able to dig in and at least know how…

Just wondering: if there was a 'right to repair' on computers in the 60's, would Intel have made an integrated microprocessor? I mean: you can't just fix a dead register by replacing it anymore... Lots of electronics have become more reliable by being fully integrated units. I prefer a durable phone to a repairable phone that needs constant replacements.

>Lots of electronics have become more reliable by being fully integrated units. I prefer a durable phone to a repairable phone that needs constant replacements.

Your argument might be fair but is ignoring the 99% of the complaints:

- DRM

- no schematics

- forbidding selling of spare parts

- not sharing repair tools

Maybe we should put an Apple exception so we don't trigger the fanboys then we get the right the repair for all the other electronics , fix 90% of the problem and we takle the Apple fanboys with a different law.

Imagine this scenario, you have a tool like a tractor (but could be a washing machine,printer). One day it stops working and a red light turns on. In this case the problem was something a child could fix, something got stuck in the tool and it could not open/move, you remove the thing and all is fine now. But the tool will not work until a genius will you send it to a genius to use a secret tool to read the error code, then he would notice that all is fine, press the "Reset status" button on his tool and give you a big receipt.

I imagine the Apple car, you will have a tire issue but you only an Apple genius will be able to replace the tire and the fanboys will defend the DRM locked tires with the same bad excuse "the DRM reduces tire stealing, it is not expensive for me personally to bring the car to Apple store, there are so many stores here in my city, don't buy the Apple car if you are poor , and if someone gifts you an old one throw it away, there are no parts anyway and fixing an old one would cost more then a new one )

Re: Right to Repair Gaining Momentum

#58
I remember back when I was young opening up an older stereo my parents had and right inside was the schematic and wiring diagram for the whole machine. My father had a shop manual for his 1962 Ford Thunderbird and not only did it tell you how to fix it but it also showed how to make any needed "special tools" for the car.

I am not saying every single thing in the world is going to be user serviced...but it is a shame that in such a high tech world with access to just about any hardware/information needed we are increasingly not being "allowed to".

If we continue to allow qualified users to be stifled by DRM for the sake of increasing profits through planned obsolecence we are going to see greatly increased levels of ecological damage and waste.

I remember a time where the worst case scenario of working on your own devices was simply voiding a warranty.

It may seem like a modern tractor is a $500k machine which "simple folk" shouldn't work on...but don't forget the tractors of 50 years ago were viewed by outsiders the same way. Farmers have always been innovators of varying levels of skill...but they all have one thing in common, they don't seem to be scared of fixing stuff. IMHO, a well connected forum of tractor owners likely knows close to as much about their tractors as the company that made them...even without access to manuals.

Limiting those who tinker and innovate can do no good. It is high time we change the slogan to "reduce, reuse, repair, recycle". The very last option should be recycling...not the second.

Re: Right to Repair Gaining Momentum

#59
post #26
post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How is a 3rd party battery related to replacing an apple iphone camera with an apple iphone camera?

Because there are also off-brand "Apple iPhone camera's" (for instance QC failures from the factory, third shifts or clones)

There are no 3rd party iphone camera's for recent iphones.

Apple blocks replacing an iphone camera with an iphone camera using their software.

iPhone 12 is unrepairable: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AnG3h3Jewq4

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