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Java 16

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Re: Java 16

#151

Post by enw »

azatris wrote: post #114
tmp7oaje wrote: post #110

As a student most of the way through a Java course, I'm wondering what Java is still used for. Java applets are dead, Android is moving on to Kotlin (apparently Google got in legal trouble with Oracle even though Java is "open source?"), and I can't think of any desktop applications that use Java anymore. Java is supposed to be able to "run anywhere," yet C++ is more portable because it doesn't require the JVM to run…

We use it on servicing the backend of an e-commerce website. The code is now 2 decades old and wonderfully refactorable to modern code.

I’m assuming Amazon? Most of Amazon runs on Java.

Re: Java 16

#152

Post by Maphistow »

shp0ngle wrote: post #127
tmp7oaje wrote: post #110

As a student most of the way through a Java course, I'm wondering what Java is still used for. Java applets are dead, Android is moving on to Kotlin (apparently Google got in legal trouble with Oracle even though Java is "open source?"), and I can't think of any desktop applications that use Java anymore. Java is supposed to be able to "run anywhere," yet C++ is more portable because it doesn't require the JVM to run…

Java is used a LOT on the back-end still. Yes, golang is shiny new thing, but there is TONS of boring back-end done in Java. Whole Alibaba runs on Java, for example. I know of some companies (won't share names but fill in the blanks) that used to be Go shops, that were eaten by Alibaba and they migrated from Go to Java.

Wouldn't agree on the GO statement, yes GO is great in terms of performance but it still lacks some important language features AFAIK no generics, no proper exception handling. I honestly don't know how the GO ecosystem is, but I can't imagine it's as mature as java. Perhaps I'm wrong tho

Re: Java 16

#153

Post by shp0ngle »

Maphistow wrote: post #152
shp0ngle wrote: post #127

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Java is used a LOT on the back-end still. Yes, golang is shiny new thing, but there is TONS of boring back-end done in Java. Whole Alibaba runs on Java, for example. I know of some companies (won't share names but fill in the blanks) that used to be Go shops, that were eaten by Alibaba and they migrated from Go to Java.

Wouldn't agree on the GO statement, yes GO is great in terms of performance but it still lacks some important language features AFAIK no generics, no proper exception handling. I honestly don't know how the GO ecosystem is, but I can't imagine it's as mature as java. Perhaps I'm wrong tho

I’ve removed that part of the post as I don’t want to make this about go :)

Re: Java 16

#154

Post by _-david-_ »

krzyk wrote: post #101
skepticmoron1 wrote: post #72

Java 16 for what? Does anybody really use > 8 in production?

Who still uses Java 8 in production? That is a serious risk. I thought everyone moved to 11 already. I use Java 15 in production in 3 projects.

I am pretty sure Red Hat, IBM, and probably other enterprisey type companies backport security patches for Java 8.

Re: Java 16

#155

Post by Aardwolf »

coldtea wrote: post #136
tmp7oaje wrote: post #110

As a student most of the way through a Java course, I'm wondering what Java is still used for. Java applets are dead, Android is moving on to Kotlin (apparently Google got in legal trouble with Oracle even though Java is "open source?"), and I can't think of any desktop applications that use Java anymore. Java is supposed to be able to "run anywhere," yet C++ is more portable because it doesn't require the JVM to run…

> As a student most of the way through a Java course, I'm wondering what Java is still used for. A huge majority of all code behind services, websites, and businesses you interact with every day. From Google, Facebook, Apple, and Twitter to your bank, and from Android to you favorite new unicorn. Of the top 25 unicorns "20 use Python; 19 use Java; eight use Kotlin. Coinbase was the only top-ten unicorn found to use S…

> Java applets have been dead on arrival

The only successful Java applet I know was Runescape (if that was an applet? it ran in browser), an RPG game that ran in Java in the browser, for 15 years or so roughly afaik, today they switched to a non browser based client instead.

Other Java applets almost never worked for some reason. Like, sometimes I'd visit a website about some mathematical topic, and the whole browser would hang while some java applet demonstrating the math was supposedly loading, and then most of the time it didn't actually work.

Re: Java 16

#156

Post by todd8 »

bishop_mandible wrote: post #78
dadoge wrote: post #12

Very cool to see that Scala continues to have a huge impact on Java’s roadmap. Records and Sealed Classes are borrowed from Scala. Could be not the best news for new Scala adoption, but good news for developers having better abstractions in Java Edit: Kotlin, and other languages should also mentioned since they also include similar features. I still think Scala has had the most influence over the years.

> Records (...) are borrowed from Scala. I think records already existed in FORTRAN and other languages like ALGOL-60. C has structs, too.

Yes you are right, records have been around for a long time.

COBOL was a popular, very early language supporting hierarchical data of different types. This dates back to approximately 1960.

FORTRAN didn’t have records other than I/O “records” (at least for the first 20 years). ALGOL-60 didn’t have records. Algol-68 did have records, however Algol-68 wasn’t in very widespread use. I never had an opportunity to use it; compiler technology at that time wasn’t really ready for such a challenging language. Algol-68 may not have had widespread use, but a number of it’s features made their way into influential languages like C, Pascal, and Simula. These languages did have records.

As I recall, IBM’s PL/1 did have records, I seem to recall using them in the 70’s in a PL/1 program. PL/1 was kind of an amalgamation of FORTRAN and COBOL’s features.

Re: Java 16

#157

Post by mdm12 »

xwolfi wrote: post #129
mdm12 wrote: post #27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

We see similar developments with C# borrowing features from F#, with records in v9, pattern matching, etc. While it's good for C#/Java, it does make it harder to push for adoption for a language such as Scala and F#. Why bother investing in the languages with a much smaller market share when the big boys adopt good bits and pieces from them constantly?

But it's fine, we don't really care about language adoption if the best most supported most tested most hiring languages swallow their features, right ? What matters is what we do with the language, more than the name of it no?

The problem (as I see it, anyways) is that the 'big boys' that I referred to in my initial comment have been around a long time (2000 for C#, 1995 for Java) and over that long history, have had a slew of language changes. They are starting to suffer from the same problem that C++ suffers from, where every shop defines their own subset of the language with which they use. Meanwhile, the languages that they graft features from (e.g., F#) tend to be smaller and more coherent with respect to the feature set.

Re: Java 16

#158

Post by majjgepolja »

xwolfi wrote: post #117
tmp7oaje wrote: post #110

As a student most of the way through a Java course, I'm wondering what Java is still used for. Java applets are dead, Android is moving on to Kotlin (apparently Google got in legal trouble with Oracle even though Java is "open source?"), and I can't think of any desktop applications that use Java anymore. Java is supposed to be able to "run anywhere," yet C++ is more portable because it doesn't require the JVM to run…

I work on the trading floor of an investment bank in Hong Kong. Our OMS is made entirely in low latency Java (no GC, lots of perf test, few C++ binding when really we must). Java allows us, contrary to our poor colleagues in algo still on C++ to work in team, manage dependency, use really good tooling, unit test easily, have libraries that work consistently all across the universe (that's a beef I have with Python: e…

> better be in a Java shitshow with slow idiots than in a C++ shitshow with autist geniuses :D

It's autist geniuses that built the world when slow idiots were manually doing everything.

Re: Java 16

#159

Post by radiospiel »

Aardwolf wrote: post #155
coldtea wrote: post #136

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> As a student most of the way through a Java course, I'm wondering what Java is still used for. A huge majority of all code behind services, websites, and businesses you interact with every day. From Google, Facebook, Apple, and Twitter to your bank, and from Android to you favorite new unicorn. Of the top 25 unicorns "20 use Python; 19 use Java; eight use Kotlin. Coinbase was the only top-ten unicorn found to use S…

> Java applets have been dead on arrival The only successful Java applet I know was Runescape (if that was an applet? it ran in browser), an RPG game that ran in Java in the browser, for 15 years or so roughly afaik, today they switched to a non browser based client instead. Other Java applets almost never worked for some reason. Like, sometimes I'd visit a website about some mathematical topic, and the whole browser…

Roughly 20 years ago we embedded Java applets inside a HTML-based online help. This turned the help from a reading resource (which tells you where to find certain preferences) into an actually interactive resource, composed from the same applets that also formed the Application itself.

Worked like a charm. I have yet to see anything similar to that.

Re: Java 16

#160

Post by majjgepolja »

wealthyyy wrote: post #147
xwolfi wrote: post #117

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I work on the trading floor of an investment bank in Hong Kong. Our OMS is made entirely in low latency Java (no GC, lots of perf test, few C++ binding when really we must). Java allows us, contrary to our poor colleagues in algo still on C++ to work in team, manage dependency, use really good tooling, unit test easily, have libraries that work consistently all across the universe (that's a beef I have with Python: e…

A lot of Universities teaches Ancient C++ and developers start to hate it. The rant of Linus also caused huge disaster newcomers coming into C++ and that shifted people into Rust.

> and that shifted people into Rust

Millennials be like

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