Would it really be the end to ask consumers for 50% more Spotify Premium to solve the problem? I would personally be willing to pay more and feel music is undervalued. I can't imagine they would lose 50% of their subscription base.
Justice at Spotify
171–180 of 405 posts
Re: Justice at Spotify
#172Earlier quoted context omitted.
> #abolishcopyright This isn't Twitter. I'm not sure what you hope to accomplish by using hashtags on HN, but it makes you look like an immature child – similar to writing "M$" in the 90s and early 00s.
#thisguyknowswhathashtagsmeanbutisajerkaboutit
> #thisguyknowswhathashtagsmean[...]
I don't, actually. Please, enlighten me as to the purpose of hashtags on HN.
Re: Justice at Spotify
#173So I wanted to try put this into perspective since "a penny per stream" is intentionally meant to sound insignificant. This seems like it would roughly double Spotify's costs: https://www.republicworld.com/technology-news/apps/how-much-... And Spotify is already paying out 75% of it's revenue to royalty holders: https://www.rollingstone.com/music/music-features/spotify-pr... So unless you believe that Spotify is bad…
According to one source [1], Spotify users stream on average 25 hours a month. Assuming an average song is 3 minutes [2], that's 500 streams per month. Going with the $9.99 per month rate, users pay about $0.02 per stream. Currently, the artists see only $0.0038 per stream, or less than 1/5th of what Spotify makes. I think that with a 50% profit margin, Spotify should be very happy. Of course, it's not that easy / st…
How much of Spotify's revenue goes towards songwriters, labels, distributors, publishers, as opposed to the artist?
Re: Justice at Spotify
#174So I wanted to try put this into perspective since "a penny per stream" is intentionally meant to sound insignificant. This seems like it would roughly double Spotify's costs: https://www.republicworld.com/technology-news/apps/how-much-... And Spotify is already paying out 75% of it's revenue to royalty holders: https://www.rollingstone.com/music/music-features/spotify-pr... So unless you believe that Spotify is bad…
According to one source [1], Spotify users stream on average 25 hours a month. Assuming an average song is 3 minutes [2], that's 500 streams per month. Going with the $9.99 per month rate, users pay about $0.02 per stream. Currently, the artists see only $0.0038 per stream, or less than 1/5th of what Spotify makes. I think that with a 50% profit margin, Spotify should be very happy. Of course, it's not that easy / st…
Yes, ignoring all other costs isn't great.
Their revenue per subscriber is also substantively lower - including free users, discounted EDU users, and family memberships. Excluding free users, it's probably ~$5 per user.
That being said, Apple Music pays .75p/stream, Tidal is 1.25p/stream. They can probably figure it out.
Re: Justice at Spotify
#175Earlier quoted context omitted.
Wait - how are you responsible for the fact that the artists sign away their rights to shitty big labels that take the majority of the money that work generates? How are you responsible for dumb decisions musicians make?
I bet you also think grocery workers are dumb for agreeing to work while demanding better working conditions and fair pay. They are not dumb decisions. An indie artist HAS to sign with labels if they want to make it in the industry. That's the way it's been and we've accepted for decades that that's the way it will be. Mistreating workers is not okay. Workers joining the status quo to make a living is not dumb. Calli…
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Re: Justice at Spotify
#176Earlier quoted context omitted.
And I value the creators of Spotify who create good software and a great infrastructure for the service they're offering. I think we should move away from this sleazy consumer mindset that the creators of Spotify should not be rewarded for the service they're offering.
are you under the impression that engineers at spotify are currently going hungry and working minimum wages? As developers we are already ridiculously overpaid compared to artists. We are the ones who benefit from the shit salaries that musicians make, which is of course why people on this website don't want to hear anything about creators bargaining. It's the people here who benefit from the status quo.
> We are the ones who benefit from the shit salaries that musicians make
Not really. We are just being paid enough so that we do not leave for somewhere else.
The ones who really benefit are the shareholders.
Coincidentally, the same people who didn't do any of the work.
Re: Justice at Spotify
#177A genuine question: how much of Spotify royalty payments goes to the artist? I mean, many of them have agencies that get a cut of this money, or I'm wrong?
I'm asking this because it could improve the artists situations if they could get the royalty directly without a middleman? Probably someone already did a research in this direction.
Re: Justice at Spotify
#178Earlier quoted context omitted.
I seem to understand that they want "a penny per stream" to go to the actual artists, which sometimes are not the royalty holders. So paying out less to the royalty holders and more to the artists sound like it could work.
So the artists have a contract with the record labels to share revenue. How is it possible for Spotify to decide to split that revenue differently? Or is the demand to increase payout to the point that artists make $0.01 per stream?
I assume Spotify has agreements with the record labels about how much the royalty owner gets for each stream. Spotify could argue to change that so it's now 50/50 between the royalty holder and the artist.
Depending on how much leverage Spotify actually has here, they can of course try to change the existing agreements they have. Nothing in impossible and harder things have changed before.
Re: Justice at Spotify
#179Earlier quoted context omitted.
"sustainable for the artists" There seems to be some idea of what musicians "should" make that other professions don't benefit from. I would like to make the same money from making furniture as I do from writing code, but I can't. I could blame the furniture stores for not promoting me or taking too big a cut or any number of other factors, or I could accept the fact that I'm not an amazing woodworker. But I still ma…
> I could blame the furniture stores for not promoting me or taking too big a cut or any number of other factors not only could you but you should. Of course workers over the last few decades have internalised the mindset that they cannot use their power to bargain and that whatever they get is fair and they should just shut up, which is why we tolerate corporate middlemen eating our lunch. I don't know if a penny pe…
My scenario is not one of power imbalance, it is that I simply cannot create enough economic value doing it to make a living, and I have no right to change anyone else's rules to accommodate for that fact. I cannot make you a bookshelf cheaper than you can buy one at IKEA. At my software developer rate a Billy Bookcase would cost you $1000. It's probably safe to say you aren't going to "stop whining" and pay that.
But you know what I did last week? I didn't mope around at some job I hate complaining about "Big Furniture". I made a bookcase. I also wrote a bunch of software. I can call myself a woodworker, I paid my mortgage, and IKEA sold thousands of Billy Bookcases. All is good.
Re: Justice at Spotify
#180Earlier quoted context omitted.
Spotify doesn’t want to take the risk, but there’s probably money on the table from all the small gyms, coffee shops, etc that should be paying commercial rates.
I don't know about other countries but in the Netherlands companies already pay an additional fee which ends-up with the royalty holders [1]. Meaning you have to pay a special license fee when playing music in venue's such as stores, cafe's and even a common office work space. [1] https://www.bumastemra.nl/en/everything-for-music-users/type...
I think that technically one is supposed to do that in commercial spaces in the US as well, but there’s an enforcement issue. Small businesses aren’t really at the mercy of roaming enforcement agents, but there are services businesses can subscribe to that cover the costs of royalties for playing in commercial spaces.