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Encountering Thomas Sowell

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Re: Encountering Thomas Sowell

#151

Post by freedom42 »

monoideism wrote: post #75
throwaway6734 wrote: post #60

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>But it’s almost taboo in socially progressive circles to say that family structure matters (even though this is obvious to Asians). You must hang in some especially woke circles

Try saying that you believe that two-parent households are better for a kid that single-parent households in the presence of anyone who considers themselves social justice oriented or left-wing.

I usually agree with leftist views and I feel like having both parents is good for the kid. Maybe only fringe leftists believe otherwise. Or maybe it's lacking context, for example the discussion might be about abusive partners, or single people who don't want to marry but want to adopt a kid.

Re: Encountering Thomas Sowell

#152

Post by scdp »

f154hfds wrote: post #2

> Many people wondered last summer why, for example, on the Black Lives Matter website the organization declared (and has since deleted) a “disruptive” stance on the nuclear family. What did that have to do with mobilizing against police violence? For a long time I was very sympathetic to BLM, I would even have considered protesting with them. It was the above that caused me to rethink my position and eventually deci…

Yes, much like how MLK's popularity made this country socialist. This whole thread reeks of "unwise and untimely".

Re: Encountering Thomas Sowell

#153

Post by specialist »

zpeti wrote: post #86
genghisjahn wrote: post #77

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is the language from the BLM site regarding disrupting the nuclear family. I'm very pro nuclear family. This didn't seem bad to me. -------------------------- We make our spaces family-friendly and enable parents to fully participate with their children. We dismantle the patriarchal practice that requires mothers to work “double shifts” so that they can mother in private even as they participate in public justic…

A dig at fathers in the first paragraph, and a diplomatically stated rejection of the nuclear family in the second. You need to be very generous to interpret this as anything other than an attack on the traditional family.

> traditional family

What's a "traditional family"?

Re: Encountering Thomas Sowell

#154

Post by zucker42 »

dgellow wrote: post #144
zucker42 wrote: post #79

Every discussion of Sowell online seems to attract fans of his declaring how brilliant he is. It's a bit strange the sort of hero worship he attracts. Personally, I've never seen it; while he seems like a reasonably smart person, his ideas are simply a mix of standard conservatism and condemnation of the intellectual establishment as he sees it. His views on immigration are uninspiring, the reasons he believes the U.…

Just a thought: it might be that what you consider to be “standard conservatism” is in part what it is due to Sowell’s work and influence for the past 50 years. He basically won against competitive thought leaders and shaped parts of the conservative movement. Maybe a better example of my thought: if you listen to Dawkins today talking about evolutionary biology, you might arrive to the conclusion that what he says i…

Yes, this very well could be true. I suppose when I wrote "standard" I meant to convey that the ideas can be attacked in standard ways from both libertarian and liberal/progressive directions more than that his ideas were unoriginal.

Re: Encountering Thomas Sowell

#155

Post by jacobriis »

pharmakom wrote: post #40
inglor_cz wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Kendi's work is extremely good Kendi proposes a constitutional amendment that would enshrine the principle that Racial inequity is evidence of racist policy (from certain threshold that he does not specify), and create Department of Anti-racism (DOA) comprised of formally trained experts on racism and no political appointees. The DOA would be responsible for preclearing all local, state and federal public policies…

"Racial inequity is evidence of racist policy" if it's not, then would wildly unequal outcomes not imply some races are superior to others? the science indicates that this is not the case so how else can it be explained? --- Hmmm people didn't like this. I will add the statistic I can't get out my head: Incarceration rates in USA (adult male) per 100k White - 450 Hispanic - 831 Black - 2306 Asian - 210 I don't think…

Please share the scientific evidence that all populations have exactly the same distributions for all non-visible characteristics that are relevant to "unequal outcomes".

Re: Encountering Thomas Sowell

#156

Post by claudiawerner »

ctrlp wrote: post #139
chumich1 wrote: post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The idea of somebody being a "trained Marxist" is very funny. Personally, I'm a 4th degree Historical Materialist and I'm training for the 2nd level Communist obstacle course

This suggests you didn't get a degree in the humanities in the past 20 years and don't understand the Leninist part of Marxist-Leninist.

I'm yet to see anyone describe themselves as simply a 'trained Marxist' without any indication as to what that might mean specifically, other than these BLM leaders. A 'trained Marxist guerilla'? Sure. A 'trained Marxist economist'? Sure. 'Educatied in Marxism'? Sure. Even just a 'Marxist', sure. But even with the Leninist part (which the quote doesn't specify - there are plenty of non-Leninist Marxists about) it's unclear what it means to be a 'trained' one. It's not as though there's a 'Marxism coach' somewhere who trains you on understanding the significance of the ratio between constant and variable capital or the labour theory of value.

It's hilarious because it's so vague, not because there are guerillas or revolutionaries who have been trained by Marxists in agitprop/organizing/guerilla tactics. In short, what's the difference between being a 'trained Marxist' and 'educated in the works of Marx and Engels'? If I heard someone describe themselves as a 'trained literary critic', I'd think exactly what GP pointed out too.

My comment is just as much a criticism of the vagueness of the BLM leaders as it is the people who accept them at their word without even inquiring into what it means. For all we know, they could literally just be holding a philosophy degree completed with a Master's project in an aspect of Marxist philosophy.

Re: Encountering Thomas Sowell

#157

Post by specialist »

genghisjahn wrote: post #146
zpeti wrote: post #86

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A dig at fathers in the first paragraph, and a diplomatically stated rejection of the nuclear family in the second. You need to be very generous to interpret this as anything other than an attack on the traditional family.

The first sentence is "We make our spaces family-friendly and enable parents to fully participate with their children." That seems very pro traditional family. What is the dig at fathers that you speak of? Is it the women working double shifts thing? If the double shift thing is true, then it's a rightful dig at fathers that should happen. We should do more domestically. If you think there isn't a double shift and th…

There is no dig. Just people finding excuses to be offended. Based on the assumption that any thing pro-motherhood is necessarily anti-fatherhood. Good grief.

Re: Encountering Thomas Sowell

#158

Post by freedom42 »

calvinmorrison wrote: post #95
zpeti wrote: post #86

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A dig at fathers in the first paragraph, and a diplomatically stated rejection of the nuclear family in the second. You need to be very generous to interpret this as anything other than an attack on the traditional family.

And across all the KPI's we know of - kids in a two parent household are more successful by every measure.

Does that measure have an inherent bias? Is it like saying kids with parents that tolerate each other are successful? When they don't tolerate, they separate and are not a two parent household anymore and so don't show up in the measure. Maybe it just means kids in peaceful households fare better?

Re: Encountering Thomas Sowell

#159

Post by swebs »

zucker42 wrote: post #132
Stronico wrote: post #119

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A column or collection of random quotes will never adequately summarize a thinker - however his books "Knowledge and Decisions" and "A Conflict of Visions" both rank as masterpieces.

I've not read any of his books, but I have watched quite a few long form interviews with him, to give you a sense how I've developed this impression of him.

I highly recommend Basic Economics. It's an excellent overview of the field of economics for the common citizen.
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