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Encountering Thomas Sowell

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Re: Encountering Thomas Sowell

#31

Post by tryonenow »

chumich1 wrote: post #19
nullifidian wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"Just ask BLM leaders Alicia Garza, Patrisse Cullors and Opal Tometi. In a revealing 2015 interview, Cullors said, “Myself and Alicia in particular are trained organizers. We are trained Marxists.” That same year, Tometi was hobnobbing with Venezuela’s Marxist dictator Nicolás Maduro, of whose regime she wrote: “In these last 17 years, we have witnessed the Bolivarian Revolution champion participatory democracy and c…

The idea of somebody being a "trained Marxist" is very funny. Personally, I'm a 4th degree Historical Materialist and I'm training for the 2nd level Communist obstacle course

I can see how it's "funny" if one is trying to minimize and deflect, but if they're hanging around characters like maduro then they're probably referring to more than just economic or government theory - these people see themselves as full blown subversive revolutionaries.

And then if you consider the spread of critical theory and postmodernism and the general influence of the Frankfurt school through our institutions, then the overtly "anti-establishment" protesting and rioting spearheaded by BLM and Antifa (which "doesn't exist", "isn't an organization", sure, how typically "revolutionary") starts to look very much like the start of a subversive, insurrectionist ploy, much like that of the bolsheviks that lead to the disaster of a government that my family fled.

And then it really isn't funny to me at all. And it also isn't funny to me when one considers that part of the rise of the Nazi party pre WWII can be attributed the behavior of very similar "revolutionary" communists who also were running destroying businesses and beating up citizens on the street for disagreement. No, I'd say such an overtly insurrectionist movement evolving openly in the US is not funny at all.

Re: Encountering Thomas Sowell

#32

Post by ghostpepper »

cdavid wrote: post #25

I don't get what make him popular around certain crowds in HN. He is very polemical (I mean he was arguing that Obama would lead the US to live under Sharia law), is not a particularly good scholar, nor very insightful. Certainly, nothing he wrote as articles gave me a desire to read some of his books. There are tons of smarter, more interesting people in the conservative sphere, especially around libertarian/conserv…

I think the terms “good scholar” and “insightful” are fairly subjective and open to interpretation so I am curious how you define them. I wonder if you could provide a few example of comparable people you think fit those descriptions better?

Re: Encountering Thomas Sowell

#33

Post by ceilingcorner »

glasss wrote: post #30
f154hfds wrote: post #2

> Many people wondered last summer why, for example, on the Black Lives Matter website the organization declared (and has since deleted) a “disruptive” stance on the nuclear family. What did that have to do with mobilizing against police violence? For a long time I was very sympathetic to BLM, I would even have considered protesting with them. It was the above that caused me to rethink my position and eventually deci…

I do hope everyone would be at least sympathetic towards other human beings wanting justice and equal treatment. I would be wary about that website and I would take whatever you see about a central organization relating to BLM with a grain of salt. I've been involved in local protests and other events in Chicago and I've never once been directed to or heard of a centralized website. I hope you reconsider your stance…

I get that BLM is decentralized and I agree that most people are just protesting injustices, but then my question is: to whom did all that money go? Clearly it went to someone. Isn't it fair to consider this organization representative of BLM?

> Black Lives Matter raised more than $90 million in 2020

https://www.marketwatch.com/story/black-lives-matter-raised-...

Re: Encountering Thomas Sowell

#34

Post by debacle »

JasonFruit wrote: post #3

Sowell has the great and challenging characteristic that he never quite gives you the answer that would let you justify your first reactions with, "See? He agrees with me!" His writing is too nuanced to provide an easy escape from thinking, even if people occasionally use cut-up quotes to do so.

I believe this is with great intent - ideologues of every flavor will leap at the first opportunity to claim speakers like Sowell for their faction.

Re: Encountering Thomas Sowell

#35

Post by cdavid »

ceilingcorner wrote: post #28
cdavid wrote: post #25

I don't get what make him popular around certain crowds in HN. He is very polemical (I mean he was arguing that Obama would lead the US to live under Sharia law), is not a particularly good scholar, nor very insightful. Certainly, nothing he wrote as articles gave me a desire to read some of his books. There are tons of smarter, more interesting people in the conservative sphere, especially around libertarian/conserv…

I wouldn't consider myself a huge Sowell fan, but I do recognize his appeal. He speaks simply, writes prolifically, uses data generously, and has no issues calling out BS. For that reason alone is he better than most political commentators.

Yeah, I guess if your baseline is political commentator, almost anything would be an improvement.

But I fail to understand how supposedly nuanced he is. To me, he looks like a caricature of the American libertarian/conservative flavor.

Re: Encountering Thomas Sowell

#36

Post by ceilingcorner »

kyrra wrote: post #15
languagehacker wrote: post #8

This post is awful . The author takes a drastic misunderstanding of the operating model of BLM, which is largely decentralized, and uses it to attribute degenerative philosophical characteristics to a group of people all banded together on a loose set of shared goals -- primarily stopping racial violence instigated by police, a problem which cannot be denied in the US. Kendi's work is extremely good, very provocative…

Have you read critiques of Kendi's works? Here's Coleman Hughes review of one book: https://www.city-journal.org/how-to-be-an-antiracist

Whew, that was a dismantling if I ever read one.

Re: Encountering Thomas Sowell

#37

Post by BitwiseFool »

glasss wrote: post #30
f154hfds wrote: post #2

> Many people wondered last summer why, for example, on the Black Lives Matter website the organization declared (and has since deleted) a “disruptive” stance on the nuclear family. What did that have to do with mobilizing against police violence? For a long time I was very sympathetic to BLM, I would even have considered protesting with them. It was the above that caused me to rethink my position and eventually deci…

I do hope everyone would be at least sympathetic towards other human beings wanting justice and equal treatment. I would be wary about that website and I would take whatever you see about a central organization relating to BLM with a grain of salt. I've been involved in local protests and other events in Chicago and I've never once been directed to or heard of a centralized website. I hope you reconsider your stance…

The great thing about modern day activism is that just about anyone who is willing can join the decentralized movement. But, there is also an official institution/organization controlling the purse strings and spending the donation money. I think it's more important to look at the formal organization's activities because spending money moves the needle when it comes to societal change.

Re: Encountering Thomas Sowell

#38

Post by bjeds »

Thomas Sowell has a greater reach than many people at Hacker News may think. In Sweden (of all places), he is one of the most quoted conservative intellectuals by some of our most read right-wing writers.

Re: Encountering Thomas Sowell

#39

Post by brigandish »

languagehacker wrote: post #8

This post is awful . The author takes a drastic misunderstanding of the operating model of BLM, which is largely decentralized, and uses it to attribute degenerative philosophical characteristics to a group of people all banded together on a loose set of shared goals -- primarily stopping racial violence instigated by police, a problem which cannot be denied in the US. Kendi's work is extremely good, very provocative…

> I suppose "consider the source" is at play here. From what I can tell, this site is nothing but the blogosphere version of some garbage neocon beltway think tank.

Thomas Chatterton Williams writes for New York Times Magazine and is (or I suppose now _was_, as either he has moved or his detractors will disown him) well known as on the left, as he writes at the beginning of the article. Maybe you think it’s beyond the pale for left wingers to consider the viewpoints of others outside of their “tribe” as having some merit but this “garbage neocon beltway think tank” appears to be _liberal_ enough to do the same as the writer.

The prevalence of the _you’re either with us or you’re against us_ attitude is why he was one of the signatories (and writer of an early draft) of the “Letter on Justice and Open Debate“[0] in Harper’s.

As the letter states:

> We need to preserve the possibility of good-faith disagreement without dire professional consequences.

[0] https://harpers.org/a-letter-on-justice-and-open-debate/

Re: Encountering Thomas Sowell

#40

Post by pharmakom »

inglor_cz wrote: post #14
languagehacker wrote: post #8

This post is awful . The author takes a drastic misunderstanding of the operating model of BLM, which is largely decentralized, and uses it to attribute degenerative philosophical characteristics to a group of people all banded together on a loose set of shared goals -- primarily stopping racial violence instigated by police, a problem which cannot be denied in the US. Kendi's work is extremely good, very provocative…

> Kendi's work is extremely good Kendi proposes a constitutional amendment that would enshrine the principle that Racial inequity is evidence of racist policy (from certain threshold that he does not specify), and create Department of Anti-racism (DOA) comprised of formally trained experts on racism and no political appointees. The DOA would be responsible for preclearing all local, state and federal public policies…

"Racial inequity is evidence of racist policy"

if it's not, then would wildly unequal outcomes not imply some races are superior to others? the science indicates that this is not the case so how else can it be explained?

---

Hmmm people didn't like this. I will add the statistic I can't get out my head:

Incarceration rates in USA (adult male) per 100k

White - 450

Hispanic - 831

Black - 2306

Asian - 210

I don't think this can be explained as cultural or genetic.

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