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Why the new USPS mail trucks look so weird

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Re: Why the new USPS mail trucks look so weird

#311

Post by sjwright »

kube-system wrote: post #239
Robotbeat wrote: post #207

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Except these vehicles are not going to be immediately dumped onto all USPS parking lots. They are going to be built over a period of years. Adding an outlet for each vehicle would cost on the order of 1% of the vehicle cost and would be paid for in fuel savings within a couple months. Look, I don't know where this idea came from that electricity is this hard problem. It's not. As it is now, many of these LLVs have to…

Parking spaces in the US are, by and large, not commonly populated with dryer outlets or RV hookups. This is a common issue that affects EV adoption, particularly when people lease the property where they park their car. https://www.nytimes.com/2020/04/16/business/electric-cars-ci... You are entirely correct that the concept of an electrical outlet is not difficult. Commercial real estate is a bit harder, however. Be…

I still don't understand your point. For your argument to be valid, you'd have to assert that a factory can build new mail trucks faster than you could add charging points.

There will be one factory pumping out cars on a specialised, serial production line. It will be competing with 30 thousand locations operating in parallel.

Re: Why the new USPS mail trucks look so weird

#312

Post by AlgorithmicTime »

Adrig wrote: post #275
Robotbeat wrote: post #132

It's interesting that "cost" is the reason given for why these vehicles aren't electric, but... how could that be? Batteries for electric carmakers are not that expensive any more, maybe $150/kWh. LLVs are currently horrendously inefficient (fleet average of about 9mpg). They have a ~13 gallon tank for a range of about 120 miles. They drive about 18 miles a day on average (total fleet average, so some are idle and pr…

ITT people arguing that a country with $7 trillion of spending budget can't install a few power outlets in its post offices.

The USPS isn't funded from tax dollars, it's funded by delivery fees.

Re: Why the new USPS mail trucks look so weird

#313

Post by BCM43 »

Robotbeat wrote: post #132

It's interesting that "cost" is the reason given for why these vehicles aren't electric, but... how could that be? Batteries for electric carmakers are not that expensive any more, maybe $150/kWh. LLVs are currently horrendously inefficient (fleet average of about 9mpg). They have a ~13 gallon tank for a range of about 120 miles. They drive about 18 miles a day on average (total fleet average, so some are idle and pr…

Aaron Gordon at Vice gives some explanations - most important cost-related bit seems to be they weight upfront cost a lot more than amortized cost, and non-electric does better on that front.

https://www.vice.com/en/article/3an4k8/dont-expect-the-usps-...

Re: Why the new USPS mail trucks look so weird

#314

Post by blaser-waffle »

BCM43 wrote: post #313
Robotbeat wrote: post #132

It's interesting that "cost" is the reason given for why these vehicles aren't electric, but... how could that be? Batteries for electric carmakers are not that expensive any more, maybe $150/kWh. LLVs are currently horrendously inefficient (fleet average of about 9mpg). They have a ~13 gallon tank for a range of about 120 miles. They drive about 18 miles a day on average (total fleet average, so some are idle and pr…

Aaron Gordon at Vice gives some explanations - most important cost-related bit seems to be they weight upfront cost a lot more than amortized cost, and non-electric does better on that front. https://www.vice.com/en/article/3an4k8/dont-expect-the-usps-...

Everyone hates OpEx, even Feddy'Gov.

Re: Why the new USPS mail trucks look so weird

#315

Post by asah »

last generation before self-driving trucks with robotic delivery arms?

true, parcels and overstuffed mailboxes would challenge robots, but the difference in cost would be so extreme, it would still be a net win... heck, you might be able to deliver mail more frequently, then send electronic notifications to users that their mailbox is full !

Re: Why the new USPS mail trucks look so weird

#316

Post by jerry1979 »

Adrig wrote: post #275
Robotbeat wrote: post #132

It's interesting that "cost" is the reason given for why these vehicles aren't electric, but... how could that be? Batteries for electric carmakers are not that expensive any more, maybe $150/kWh. LLVs are currently horrendously inefficient (fleet average of about 9mpg). They have a ~13 gallon tank for a range of about 120 miles. They drive about 18 miles a day on average (total fleet average, so some are idle and pr…

ITT people arguing that a country with $7 trillion of spending budget can't install a few power outlets in its post offices.

I don't think that spending really goes to the post office tho.

Re: Why the new USPS mail trucks look so weird

#317

Post by _ph_ »

ping_pong wrote: post #161
Robotbeat wrote: post #144

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That doesn't make any sense. All the "electrical infrastructure" needed to drive the typical 45 mile route is a regular old 120V exterior outlet. The retrofit cost is going to probably be double the marginal cost it would've been to just make it electric in the first place. Whoever is making these decisions either wasn't given competitive bids or they're poorly informed about electric vehicles.

How long will it take to recharge these hundreds of vehicles, and who will be around to take them out of their charging stations and move in a new vehicle? Electric vehicles are great but at scale, the issues around charging them daily are very real. It works for a single homeowner, but if a post office has 100(?) trucks, and it takes 2 hours to charge, someone needs to be there to keep track of them, unless you expe…

Just put a power outlet - only minimally more beefy than a normal wall socket - at each parking lot. Over night, they are easily charged no need to move them around.

Re: Why the new USPS mail trucks look so weird

#318

Post by mypalmike »

peteradio wrote: post #309
mypalmike wrote: post #278

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Decreased demand would tend to result in reduced prices, not increased prices.

Only instantaneously. In the long term supply decreases to meet decreased (now niche) demand which decreases duty cycle on operations, hence increasing per unit cost.

Refined petroleum products will certainly not be niche within a decade. So much of global transportation simply can't swap out ICE with electric now, or in many cases ever. Huge swaths of the globe lack the electrical grid infrastructure to entertain even small moves in that direction. And huge numbers of drivers in countries with adequate infrastructure can't plug in at home due to living in apartment complexes, urban street parking, etc. Electric transport is a great growth area but it will not make gasoline niche any time soon.

More likely the decreasing cost of electric transportation options will have downward competitive price pressure on gasoline.

Re: Why the new USPS mail trucks look so weird

#319

Post by Larrikin »

ironmagma wrote: post #292
Larrikin wrote: post #146

Earlier quoted context omitted.

HN is usually pretty utilitarian, I'm sure there are a lot of people on here that admire Mark Zuckerburgs "style" and seek to emulate it by not caring at all about how they dress and simply optimizing for clothes that will last the longest. But there are also people out there who are influenced by wanting to look in a way they perceive as nice or cool and still have a satisfying life. I appreciate the tech culture th…

What looks ‘ugly’ today could very well look great in five years. The Transamerica Pyramid in San Francisco debuted to reception as an eyesore, but now it’s one of the main icons if the city. Weird is almost always good in my opinion. If it looks weird, that indicates it challenges assumptions and pushes the envelope forward.

A very similar building was put up in North Korea and only stopped being an eye sore after a facade was put over it.

Weird can be fashionable forward thinking but it's not always and I'd argue it's not usually unless there's a forward thinking artistic vision behind the weird that sees something new. Those electronic shirts that show wifi strength from a few years ago will never be fashionable but they definitely are weird. A government spec sheet is not a forward thinking artistic vision.

Re: Why the new USPS mail trucks look so weird

#320

Post by RegBarclay »

daveslash wrote: post #57

I had never seen a USPS vehicle until I was a legal adult and moved to college. I grew up in a very rural part of New England, America - on a dirt road. Winter had plenty of snow and plowing wasn't a guarantee at all . Considering the USPS Creed "Neither snow nor rain nor heat nor gloom of night stays these couriers from the swift completion of their appointed rounds" -- Snow is the first one ! Our "mail lady"** drov…

This is still how it is in rural areas. We have a mail lady. I've seen multiple vehicles -- some of them Jeeps. We don't get the LLVs out our way.

On the USPS Creed, I was a paperboy when I was a teen and always chuckled at that. I never got Sundays off. I don't think I ever had a snow day, but there were days the US mail didn't run due to weather.

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