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Emacs-ng: Emacs with Deno runtime and TypeScript

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Re: Emacs-ng: Emacs with Deno runtime and TypeScript

#71

Post by [deleted] »

eddieh wrote: post #44
vitus wrote: post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

EDIT: as pointed out, this is run with Guile 2.2, which is pre-JIT. Results to be posted later in this thread... Okay. $ cat fib.scm (define (fibonacci n) (if ( Node also uses V8. $ time node fib.js node fib.js 1.29s user 0.01s system 100% cpu 1.296 total But okay, you wanted deno. $ time deno run fib.js deno run fib.js 1.41s user 0.02s system 99% cpu 1.423 total Meanwhile, using `emacs --script fib.elc` to evaluate…

This got me curious about other Scheme implementations. Chicken compiles to C $ csc fib.scm $ time ./fib real 0m8.461s user 0m8.383s sys 0m0.061s Racket has a modern JIT $ cat fib.rkt #lang racket (define (fibonacci n) (if ( For reference $ sysctl -a | grep .brand_string machdep.cpu.brand_string: Intel(R) Core(TM) i9-8950HK CPU @ 2.90GHz

[deleted]

Re: Emacs-ng: Emacs with Deno runtime and TypeScript

#72

Post by skavi »

thomastjeffery wrote: post #33
dan-robertson wrote: post #23

I’m not convinced emacs performance is that bad. It’s pretty highly optimised for typing at a normal rate though I agree the data structures aren’t great for more graphical things (lots of properties, random access inserts, even just long lines). But then the way to improve this is to improve the data structures rather than replacing emacs lisp. Emacs performs better than many other applications at important objectiv…

> I’m not convinced emacs performance is that bad. In my experience with modern hardware - a gaming PC - Emacs is noticeably sluggish compared to most other editors in a few specific ways: particularly syntax highlighting. When is the last time you used a different editor? > whatever happened to remacs? It's still there: https://github.com/remacs/remacs/wiki/Progress As far as I can tell, its goal isn't to change any…

The last time that page was edited was 2 years ago. The last commit wasn't particularly recent either.

Re: Emacs-ng: Emacs with Deno runtime and TypeScript

#73

Post by bitwize »

celeritascelery wrote: post #68
bitwize wrote: post #55

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I think Emacs types would shy away from building JavaScript into their editor, having V8 be the engine, adding more layers of abstraction to understand and maintain, and splitting the extensions between Emacs Lisp and JavaScript. I'm also not convinced that a significant part of the community really wants this. I'm reminded of when an old C hand tells me that Rust will never replace C because it's too complex, brit…

> Much of computing in the very near future will be built on two languages: Rust and JavaScript. It will be interesting to see if this prediction pans out. There have been similar predictions about C++, Java, TCL, php, Perl, etc. it seems “the one true language” never emerges, but it is just around the corner. Though I really hope the future is more polyglot, because that is just way more fun.

> Though I really hope the future is more polyglot, because that is just way more fun.

I hope so too, but... I've worked with people who really don't want to touch anything besides JavaScript. Such people could be coaxed to use Rust to write kernel drivers and the like, due to its safety guarantees -- but not C, nor C++. JavaScript is in everything. Both of the major DEs for Linux embed JavaScript interpreters. Microsoft is adding it to their office suite, to coexist with and eventually supplant VBA. Inasmuch as developers are still writing desktop apps, odds are good they're Electron apps. It's as near to a universal language as we've had in decades. Instructions are being added to ARM to better support JavaScript.

The dream of the Lisp machine (which Emacs to some extent embodies) is dead. Computers of the future will be, largely, JavaScript machines.

Re: Emacs-ng: Emacs with Deno runtime and TypeScript

#74

Post by steveklabnik »

achempion wrote: post #66
janoc wrote: post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Well, basically this is someone trying to implement VSCode in Emacs ... Ain't gonna get far once the main developer loses interest in the project. Emacs users use Emacs because they want Lisp and don't care about web rendering and javascript runtimes ... Oh yeah and Rust is thrown in too for good measure. Good 90% of Emacs code is in the extensions which are in Lisp and nobody is going to rewrite them to Javascript e…

Emacs speed was good enough 45 years ago, with modern processors it's just lightning fast. You can have C / Rust / any_lang extensions like RipGrep to boost some intensive workloads as well.

“Eight megs and constantly swapping” isn’t as much of an issue these days, it’s true...

Re: Emacs-ng: Emacs with Deno runtime and TypeScript

#75

Post by eddieh »

taeric wrote: post #62
eddieh wrote: post #59

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Try BigInt in JS https://developer.mozilla.org/en-US/docs/Web/JavaScript/Refe...

Apologies, I should have acknowledged there are ways to get around that today. My guess is most folks writing javascript are not aware of BigInt. And will only become so when it bites them. Granted, this is also true of fixednum in common lisp. At least "biting you" with that should only be performance. (I can't think of many other ways for that one to get you.) Edit: I should further ack that "getting around" it is…

I don’t think I’ve seen BigInt in the wild Wild West of JS at all, so that’s probably true that most folks are not aware of it.

I wonder if there’s some room for improvement since using GMP is pretty standard for most languages.

Edit: forgot to link to a BigInt comparison in major language implementations http://www.wilfred.me.uk/blog/2014/10/20/the-fastest-bigint-...

Re: Emacs-ng: Emacs with Deno runtime and TypeScript

#76

Post by CyberRabbi »

The inclusion of Deno/webrender almost turns this into a web browser. I wonder if this project could be imagined another way, instead of turning emacs into an application runtime, port emacs to be a SPA. It would still get to take advantage of all the latest technology, and with the new FileSystem APIs emerging it would have native file system access.

Re: Emacs-ng: Emacs with Deno runtime and TypeScript

#78

Post by reidrac »

bitwize wrote: post #55
JasonFruit wrote: post #18

The Emacs community, like the Lisp community with which it overlaps, is very conservative, in the sense that it doesn't throw things away quickly or make huge changes lightly. For that reason, I'd be very surprised if this took off — even though it sounds like it would be mostly backwards-compatible. I think Emacs types would shy away from building JavaScript into their editor, having V8 be the engine, adding more la…

> I think Emacs types would shy away from building JavaScript into their editor, having V8 be the engine, adding more layers of abstraction to understand and maintain, and splitting the extensions between Emacs Lisp and JavaScript. I'm also not convinced that a significant part of the community really wants this. I'm reminded of when an old C hand tells me that Rust will never replace C because it's too complex, brit…

> The Emacs-ng team doesn't have to convince the Emacs community -- they only have to convince their replacements.

Those are using VS Code already, isn't it?

Re: Emacs-ng: Emacs with Deno runtime and TypeScript

#79

Post by the-smug-one »

skavi wrote: post #72
thomastjeffery wrote: post #33

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I’m not convinced emacs performance is that bad. In my experience with modern hardware - a gaming PC - Emacs is noticeably sluggish compared to most other editors in a few specific ways: particularly syntax highlighting. When is the last time you used a different editor? > whatever happened to remacs? It's still there: https://github.com/remacs/remacs/wiki/Progress As far as I can tell, its goal isn't to change any…

The last time that page was edited was 2 years ago. The last commit wasn't particularly recent either.

remacs is dead, they don't accept merge requests. For some reason they did not find it reasonable to mention this in the README, so sometimes potential contributors arrive and do unnecessary work until someone tells them it's "stalled".

Re: Emacs-ng: Emacs with Deno runtime and TypeScript

#80

Post by the-smug-one »

eddieh wrote: post #44
vitus wrote: post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

EDIT: as pointed out, this is run with Guile 2.2, which is pre-JIT. Results to be posted later in this thread... Okay. $ cat fib.scm (define (fibonacci n) (if ( Node also uses V8. $ time node fib.js node fib.js 1.29s user 0.01s system 100% cpu 1.296 total But okay, you wanted deno. $ time deno run fib.js deno run fib.js 1.41s user 0.02s system 99% cpu 1.423 total Meanwhile, using `emacs --script fib.elc` to evaluate…

This got me curious about other Scheme implementations. Chicken compiles to C $ csc fib.scm $ time ./fib real 0m8.461s user 0m8.383s sys 0m0.061s Racket has a modern JIT $ cat fib.rkt #lang racket (define (fibonacci n) (if ( For reference $ sysctl -a | grep .brand_string machdep.cpu.brand_string: Intel(R) Core(TM) i9-8950HK CPU @ 2.90GHz

Chez Scheme gives:

> (time (fibonacci 40)) (time (fibonacci 40)) no collections 1.364130664s elapsed cpu time 1.364456065s elapsed real time 0 bytes allocated 102334155

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