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Why the new USPS mail trucks look so weird

thedrive.com

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Re: Why the new USPS mail trucks look so weird

#191

Post by m463 »

Robotbeat wrote: post #144
m463 wrote: post #141

Earlier quoted context omitted.

from the other linked article: > While some will be EVs, some of the NGDVs will come with modern, fuel-efficient internal combustion engines. As electric vehicle infrastructure improves, these NGDVs will be able to be retrofitted with the battery-electric powertrain later on.

That doesn't make any sense. All the "electrical infrastructure" needed to drive the typical 45 mile route is a regular old 120V exterior outlet. The retrofit cost is going to probably be double the marginal cost it would've been to just make it electric in the first place. Whoever is making these decisions either wasn't given competitive bids or they're poorly informed about electric vehicles.

There's quite a bit more charging overhead for 110 vs 220.

Also, there are 30,000 post offices. I'd imagine it will be a long process, even if they just put in 110. one evse requires large amounts of continuous current, let alone with a parking lot full of vehicles.

Re: Why the new USPS mail trucks look so weird

#192

Post by andoriyu »

diggan wrote: post #10

Why have a specific design anyways? In both Sweden and Spain, the cars carrying mail is typically just a normal half-truck (not sure about the correct name) with the post office branding. Here are two examples: https://c8.alamy.com/comp/DA5TW8/yellow-correos-spanish-post... - https://st2.depositphotos.com/3982569/5739/i/950/depositphot... Seems to work fine. Packages gets carried in bigger trucks, but still just busi…

Scale, USPS deliver far more mail than others. USPS had pretty specific requirements and not a single existing truck existed or could pass an endurance test.

Good video on subject: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RE5FGyq12ds

Re: Why the new USPS mail trucks look so weird

#193

Post by xyzzyz »

Robotbeat wrote: post #169
ping_pong wrote: post #161

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How long will it take to recharge these hundreds of vehicles, and who will be around to take them out of their charging stations and move in a new vehicle? Electric vehicles are great but at scale, the issues around charging them daily are very real. It works for a single homeowner, but if a post office has 100(?) trucks, and it takes 2 hours to charge, someone needs to be there to keep track of them, unless you expe…

You don’t need a “charging station,” you just need an outlet. And you don’t need someone to “charge” them except the person who parked it. It charges at night after use. An exterior outlet costs almost nothing compared to the fully burdened cost of a parking space. Of all the “very real” problems with electric vehicles, you picked two or three things that aren’t.

If you have more than one vehicle that you need to charge, you need more than one outlet. Worse, you cannot just get connect all of them to one outlet through daisy chained extension cords: you need separate 120V circuit for each vehicle. Even if you are lucky enough to have multiple outlets around where you park your fleet, these will likely all be on the same circuit.

This problem is of course solvable, you need to build a charging station. The point is that you need more than "just an outlet".

Re: Why the new USPS mail trucks look so weird

#194

Post by kube-system »

maxerickson wrote: post #97
throwaway0a5e wrote: post #87

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Your rural mail carrier selected the vehicle based on a known defined mailbox height.

Yes, that was my point, they were able to buy an (apparently) suitable vehicle 'off the shelf'.

Modified jeeps are the best you can get without the leverage of being able to write 9 digit contracts. That doesn't make them ideal.

Aftermarket RHD modified vehicles have a lot of issues, like being able to see the gauges, the ability to operate all of the ancillary controls, interference with factory safety equipment, poor ergonomics, etc.

https://www.postalthings.com/images/MailTrays/KiaMailTray.jp...

Re: Why the new USPS mail trucks look so weird

#195

Post by creato »

anoncake wrote: post #182
asquabventured wrote: post #148

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'd like to unsubscribe from this alternative reality of the world please.

Why do you have a problem with this "alternative" reality?

It's annoying to have to constantly wonder if I'm saying something offensive when I absolutely do not intend that.

In this case, I wouldn't have thought anything was wrong with "mail lady" and might have said the same thing if my mail carrier were a woman (which she is). Now I read this thread and realize that some people would think it is a problem.

This cultural wave of making seemingly harmless language into problems is one more barrier to speaking anything at all unless I'm talking to people I know well.

Re: Why the new USPS mail trucks look so weird

#196

Post by masswerk »

This made me wonder: has there ever been such a thing as brutalist car design?

(Meaning, a car designed for public services, exposing construction and functional requirements in a sculptural expression, which is not dictated by marketing requirements.)

Re: Why the new USPS mail trucks look so weird

#197

Post by kube-system »

Robotbeat wrote: post #186
kube-system wrote: post #181

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Does the electric code permit overallocation in that case? That's not my area of expertise but I doubt it does. And yes, installing service is "cheap" but it takes time.

It takes way less time than building these vehicles will and can be done cheaply with local electricians. It’s strange how common magical thinking about EVs is, like electricity is this newfangled thing that we don’t understand and need massively new, poorly understood infrastructure. We don’t. And that’s a huge advantage.

I am not saying and have not said electricity is the hard part. The logistics of steering the world's highest volume postal operation (with financial issues as it stands) is the hard part. The USPS handles 43% of the world's mail. There are no projects of this size that aren't phased in, which is apparently what they are doing. Some of these vehicles will be electric, so it stands to reason that they will also be building out the equipment and processes required to roll them out.

Re: Why the new USPS mail trucks look so weird

#198

Post by lazide »

Robotbeat wrote: post #186
kube-system wrote: post #181

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Does the electric code permit overallocation in that case? That's not my area of expertise but I doubt it does. And yes, installing service is "cheap" but it takes time.

It takes way less time than building these vehicles will and can be done cheaply with local electricians. It’s strange how common magical thinking about EVs is, like electricity is this newfangled thing that we don’t understand and need massively new, poorly understood infrastructure. We don’t. And that’s a huge advantage.

Many of these buildings are not owned by the USPS. Many of these buildings do not have adequate electrical right now. USPS has 30k buildings.

Paying someone to build vehicles is much different than retrofitting buildings, each in a different jurisdiction, in many cases that you do not own, to allow plugging in a huge number of vehicles in all sorts of weather conditions - in the middle of often uncovered parking.

Re: Why the new USPS mail trucks look so weird

#199

Post by Robotbeat »

xyzzyz wrote: post #193
Robotbeat wrote: post #169

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You don’t need a “charging station,” you just need an outlet. And you don’t need someone to “charge” them except the person who parked it. It charges at night after use. An exterior outlet costs almost nothing compared to the fully burdened cost of a parking space. Of all the “very real” problems with electric vehicles, you picked two or three things that aren’t.

If you have more than one vehicle that you need to charge, you need more than one outlet. Worse, you cannot just get connect all of them to one outlet through daisy chained extension cords: you need separate 120V circuit for each vehicle. Even if you are lucky enough to have multiple outlets around where you park your fleet, these will likely all be on the same circuit. This problem is of course solvable, you need to…

Nope. You only need a 15A branch per vehicle. You can install a 30A branch, too, if you like, and two poles of those are enough for 4 vehicles. For slow charging purposes, 120V exterior outlets are more than good enough and have commonly been used for government electric vehicles for decades.

Re: Why the new USPS mail trucks look so weird

#200

Post by Robotbeat »

nradov wrote: post #184
Robotbeat wrote: post #169

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You don’t need a “charging station,” you just need an outlet. And you don’t need someone to “charge” them except the person who parked it. It charges at night after use. An exterior outlet costs almost nothing compared to the fully burdened cost of a parking space. Of all the “very real” problems with electric vehicles, you picked two or three things that aren’t.

At most post offices the trucks are parked outside without electrical outlets nearby. Sure those can be built but it will take a while. In many cases the circuit supplying the facility will have to be upgraded.

Any parking lot with lamp posts has electricity. Takes way less time to install an exterior outlet than it does to build a vehicle.
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