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AMD 3rd Gen EPYC Milan Review

anandtech.com

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Re: AMD 3rd Gen EPYC Milan Review

#91

Post by fomine3 »

This is most interesting part of interview posted at the same time.

https://www.anandtech.com/show/16548/interview-with-amd-forr...

> IC: While AMD increases the performance on its processor product line, the bandwidth out to DRAM remains constant. Is there an ideal intercept point where higher bandwidth memory makes sense for a customer?

> FN: I think you’re absolutely right, and really at the top of the stack, depending on the workload, that can be the performance limiter. If you’re comparing top of the stack parts in certain workloads, you’re not going to see as much of a performance gain from generation to generation, just because you are memory bandwidth limited at the end of the day.

> That’s going to continue as we keep increasing the performance of cores, and keep increasing the number of cores. But you should expect us to continue to increase the amount of bandwidth and memory support. DDR5 is coming, which has quite a bit of headroom to DDR4. We see more and more interest in using high bandwidth memory, for an on-package solution. I think you will see SKU’s in the future from a variety of companies incorporating HBM, especially for AI. That will initially be fairly specialized to be to be candid, because HBM is extremely expensive. So for most the standard DDR memory, even DDR5 memory, means that HBM is going to be confined initially to applications that are incredibly memory latency sensitive, and then you know, it’ll be interesting to how it plays out over time.

Re: AMD 3rd Gen EPYC Milan Review

#92

Post by coder543 »

jedbrown wrote: post #90
wmf wrote: post #86

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why would two weak sockets be better than a single-socket system?

16 channels of DDR4-3200, versus 8 in single socket EPYC or 4 for Threadripper.

I think someone concerned with paying "But, maybe their home server's singular purpose is to have a lot of RAM?

Re: AMD 3rd Gen EPYC Milan Review

#93

Post by ece »

fomine3 wrote: post #91

This is most interesting part of interview posted at the same time. https://www.anandtech.com/show/16548/interview-with-amd-forr... > IC: While AMD increases the performance on its processor product line, the bandwidth out to DRAM remains constant. Is there an ideal intercept point where higher bandwidth memory makes sense for a customer? > FN: I think you’re absolutely right, and really at the top of the stack, depe…

I would love to see desktop systems move to 4 channels. 2 DIMMs/channel can die as far as I'm concerned, lets have 2 channels/DIMM for laptops. Memory channel density needs to increase along with core density (wider and/or more cores).

Re: AMD 3rd Gen EPYC Milan Review

#94

Post by freedom42 »

A bit offtopic. All AMD, Intel and ARM processors come with binary blobs that can't be disabled or removed which could potentially control your whole computer (Intel Management Engine, AMD Platform Security Processor).

Really powerful desktop and server-grade processors are available with fully open source firmware and hardware (even fully open BMC). It's not that expensive, comes with PCIe 4.0 and other modern features [1].

They are POWER9 processors, not x86_64. But many software work on it, checkout 'talos-workstation' on IRC to chat with the users [can access IRC through Element Matrix app] - someone is running Android Studio on it (yeah so much for privacy but still).

[1] https://www.raptorcs.com/

These systems are currently being used by businesses and developers alike, including Google.

Re: AMD 3rd Gen EPYC Milan Review

#95

Post by wmf »

ece wrote: post #93
fomine3 wrote: post #91

This is most interesting part of interview posted at the same time. https://www.anandtech.com/show/16548/interview-with-amd-forr... > IC: While AMD increases the performance on its processor product line, the bandwidth out to DRAM remains constant. Is there an ideal intercept point where higher bandwidth memory makes sense for a customer? > FN: I think you’re absolutely right, and really at the top of the stack, depe…

I would love to see desktop systems move to 4 channels. 2 DIMMs/channel can die as far as I'm concerned, lets have 2 channels/DIMM for laptops. Memory channel density needs to increase along with core density (wider and/or more cores).

They won't. DDR5-6400 doubles memory bandwidth and that's what we'll get for the next decade or so.

Re: AMD 3rd Gen EPYC Milan Review

#96

Post by eqvinox »

wmf wrote: post #86
eqvinox wrote: post #78

Kinda wish there was a 3rd gen 7282 equivalent, for those of us just building their home servers. 2 sockets with (... really need to replace my 2×E5-2630v2, it's getting quite old... but I guess a 2×7282 will do.) [Ed.: nevermind, hadn't read to the "idle consumption" graphs yet... nope, I'll stick with Rome ...]

Why would two weak sockets be better than a single-socket system?

Have you even looked at the offerings? The P-series/single socket CPUs are, at the same specs, only slightly cheaper than the dual socket ones. 2×7282 gives me 32 cores at $1300 list price. 7443P is $1337 for 24 cores. 7502P is even more expensive.

Two 7282s is pretty much the best perf/power/money option as far as I can see.

Re: AMD 3rd Gen EPYC Milan Review

#97

Post by wmf »

freedom42 wrote: post #94

A bit offtopic. All AMD, Intel and ARM processors come with binary blobs that can't be disabled or removed which could potentially control your whole computer (Intel Management Engine, AMD Platform Security Processor). Really powerful desktop and server-grade processors are available with fully open source firmware and hardware (even fully open BMC). It's not that expensive, comes with PCIe 4.0 and other modern featu…

Honestly, Power9 is not really powerful compared to Milan; it's 1/3 to 1/2 the performance at best. https://openbenchmarking.org/vs/Processor/AMD%20EPYC%207763%...

The desktop-grade Power9 gets rekt by a Core i3: https://openbenchmarking.org/vs/Processor/POWER9%204-Core,In...

Re: AMD 3rd Gen EPYC Milan Review

#98

Post by eqvinox »

coder543 wrote: post #92
jedbrown wrote: post #90

Earlier quoted context omitted.

16 channels of DDR4-3200, versus 8 in single socket EPYC or 4 for Threadripper.

I think someone concerned with paying " But, maybe their home server's singular purpose is to have a lot of RAM?

The memory (64GB ea) for each socket in my old server cost about as much as the CPU for the respective socket, about 550€ each. (i.e. 1100€ per socket.)

For a 7282 box I'd spend about as much on the RAM as on the CPU again; 16GB DDR4-3200R sticks are about 80€ each, so filling one socket is 640€. The 7282 currently sells for ~700€ currently so that lines up all right.

(This would give me 2×128GB total; 32GB RAM sticks are unfortunately indeed still a bit too expensive, especially at 3200MHz rating. But maybe I should go with 32GB and half fill each socket & fill it out later when it's cheaper...)

Re: AMD 3rd Gen EPYC Milan Review

#99

Post by freedom42 »

wmf wrote: post #97
freedom42 wrote: post #94

A bit offtopic. All AMD, Intel and ARM processors come with binary blobs that can't be disabled or removed which could potentially control your whole computer (Intel Management Engine, AMD Platform Security Processor). Really powerful desktop and server-grade processors are available with fully open source firmware and hardware (even fully open BMC). It's not that expensive, comes with PCIe 4.0 and other modern featu…

Honestly, Power9 is not really powerful compared to Milan; it's 1/3 to 1/2 the performance at best. https://openbenchmarking.org/vs/Processor/AMD%20EPYC%207763%... The desktop-grade Power9 gets rekt by a Core i3: https://openbenchmarking.org/vs/Processor/POWER9%204-Core,In...

Edit: Commented something without reading, deleted.

The advantage of POWER9 is fully open firmware and hardware while being really powerful. They won't beat the latest AMD in performance. But AMD can never be open. The RaptorCS products are FSF RYF (respects your freedom) certified.

https://ryf.fsf.org/vendors/raptor

Some benchmarks from 2019: https://www.phoronix.com/scan.php?page=article&item=rome-pow...

Re: AMD 3rd Gen EPYC Milan Review

#100

Post by ksec »

fomine3 wrote: post #91

This is most interesting part of interview posted at the same time. https://www.anandtech.com/show/16548/interview-with-amd-forr... > IC: While AMD increases the performance on its processor product line, the bandwidth out to DRAM remains constant. Is there an ideal intercept point where higher bandwidth memory makes sense for a customer? > FN: I think you’re absolutely right, and really at the top of the stack, depe…

They are still using GF 14nm on their IOD due to Wafer Supply Agreement. We will have to wait and see how they fit their iOD with PCI-Express 5 and DDR5 with Zen 4.

And I cant wait to see Netflix plays around with these in their FreeBSD box.

It is interesting the biggest upgrade from Zen 4 won't actually the Core part but the iOD. As I am expecting Zen 4 to be some tweaks and a Die Shrink to 5nm. TSMC also somehow unexpectedly announce doubling their 5nm capacity with new Fab capacity being built. My guess would be an aggregate demand from Apple and AMD exceed certain threshold to be worth doing.

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