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Why the new USPS mail trucks look so weird

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Re: Why the new USPS mail trucks look so weird

#161

Post by ping_pong »

Robotbeat wrote: post #144
m463 wrote: post #141

Earlier quoted context omitted.

from the other linked article: > While some will be EVs, some of the NGDVs will come with modern, fuel-efficient internal combustion engines. As electric vehicle infrastructure improves, these NGDVs will be able to be retrofitted with the battery-electric powertrain later on.

That doesn't make any sense. All the "electrical infrastructure" needed to drive the typical 45 mile route is a regular old 120V exterior outlet. The retrofit cost is going to probably be double the marginal cost it would've been to just make it electric in the first place. Whoever is making these decisions either wasn't given competitive bids or they're poorly informed about electric vehicles.

How long will it take to recharge these hundreds of vehicles, and who will be around to take them out of their charging stations and move in a new vehicle?

Electric vehicles are great but at scale, the issues around charging them daily are very real. It works for a single homeowner, but if a post office has 100(?) trucks, and it takes 2 hours to charge, someone needs to be there to keep track of them, unless you expect 100 charging stations.

Re: Why the new USPS mail trucks look so weird

#162

Post by ping_pong »

kumarvvr wrote: post #89

Why are looks so important anyways? Clearly USPS is trying to look after its employees, trying to ensure they have the best vehicle, suited for their work with minimal hassle.

If they looked too good, the sad fact is that they might be targeted for being stolen.

Re: Why the new USPS mail trucks look so weird

#163

Post by zelon88 »

raldi wrote: post #158
zelon88 wrote: post #156

I've always wondered certain vehicles were chosen for fleets. However the original mail truck always made sense to me. It was small, durable, and simple with it's OHV engine and solid rear axle. But what about other civil service cars? When I was growing up the de-facto Police vehicle and taxi cab was the Panther platform Ford Crown Victoria. A rear wheel drive, V8, large, lumbering, expensive, complex luxury sedan t…

NYPD uses Impalas

That's slightly better, but they have used Crown Victoria's in the past. Kind of hard to continue using them when they've long been discontinued.

But still, why the Impala? Why an 18mpg, FWD, 300hp transversely mounted engine design? Why kneecap yourself with a shit car? When do they use the full potential of the Impala, or the Crown Vic, or the EcoBoost Explorer? Even in the 90s and 2000s. Why not solicit contracts for custom vehicles? We could have had a 4d, 4WD Mitsubishi 3000GT Sedan Interceptor Edition. Instead there are enough Panther platforms cubed up in junkyards for every man woman and child in America.

It goes to show that the requirements for police vehicles are crafted by the police themselves. "We need a high performance, 2WD luxury car with... ahhh... three, NO four... yeah FOUR hundred horsepower!"

Re: Why the new USPS mail trucks look so weird

#164

Post by fshbbdssbbgdd »

Robotbeat wrote: post #132

It's interesting that "cost" is the reason given for why these vehicles aren't electric, but... how could that be? Batteries for electric carmakers are not that expensive any more, maybe $150/kWh. LLVs are currently horrendously inefficient (fleet average of about 9mpg). They have a ~13 gallon tank for a range of about 120 miles. They drive about 18 miles a day on average (total fleet average, so some are idle and pr…

It seems like you are comparing a theoretical modern EV to the terrible efficiency of the old LLV. They didn’t choose to continue buying the old LLV, they are buying a vehicle with a new ICE. So the comparison makes little sense.

Re: Why the new USPS mail trucks look so weird

#165

Post by gsnedders »

dangerbird2 wrote: post #129
chrisseaton wrote: post #37

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The same reason Amazon runs its own shipping network instead of relying on UPS or Fedex. Amazon use off-the-shelf vehicles though. > one of the requirements was long service life I wonder how they require that. Does the manufacturer have to warranty them all for 30 years? That's extraordinary!

Mail trucks have pretty drastically different requirements than a parcel delivery truck. Mail trucks are designed for a right sided driver and lots of stops on every block, so good visibility to avoid crashing into oncoming traffic or hitting pedestrians in the front is obligatory. Amazon, UPS, and friends have much more infrequent stops. USPS also needs vehicles that can last for decades with much lower maintenance…

And this is a significant difference to how mail is delivered in most of Europe, where the vast majority of last-mile delivery is done on foot or on bike, and relatively little is done by vehicle. Density undoubtedly plays a fair role here.

Re: Why the new USPS mail trucks look so weird

#166

Post by hellbannedguy »

chrismartin wrote: post #113

Looks aside, air conditioning is a win for postal workers in hot climates. The Grumman LLV doesn't have it, and postal workers are required to keep the windows shut when they leave the vehicle, even in 115°F days in Phoenix.

I imagine they will keep a few gas powered vehicles for very hot climates.

Re: Why the new USPS mail trucks look so weird

#167

Post by kube-system »

ping_pong wrote: post #162
kumarvvr wrote: post #89

Why are looks so important anyways? Clearly USPS is trying to look after its employees, trying to ensure they have the best vehicle, suited for their work with minimal hassle.

If they looked too good, the sad fact is that they might be targeted for being stolen.

Eh, I'm not sure about that. People don't steal cars because they look good. And the people who do, probably don't think box trucks are that attractive. Stolen vehicles are usually crimes of opportunity.

Re: Why the new USPS mail trucks look so weird

#168

Post by TylerE »

dehrmann wrote: post #114
chrisseaton wrote: post #37

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The same reason Amazon runs its own shipping network instead of relying on UPS or Fedex. Amazon use off-the-shelf vehicles though. > one of the requirements was long service life I wonder how they require that. Does the manufacturer have to warranty them all for 30 years? That's extraordinary!

I don't think Amazon does letter deliveries from the driver seat.

Wouldn't it be funny if they did? I can imagine perhaps USPS contracting out some low volume routes to Amazon.

Re: Why the new USPS mail trucks look so weird

#169

Post by Robotbeat »

ping_pong wrote: post #161
Robotbeat wrote: post #144

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That doesn't make any sense. All the "electrical infrastructure" needed to drive the typical 45 mile route is a regular old 120V exterior outlet. The retrofit cost is going to probably be double the marginal cost it would've been to just make it electric in the first place. Whoever is making these decisions either wasn't given competitive bids or they're poorly informed about electric vehicles.

How long will it take to recharge these hundreds of vehicles, and who will be around to take them out of their charging stations and move in a new vehicle? Electric vehicles are great but at scale, the issues around charging them daily are very real. It works for a single homeowner, but if a post office has 100(?) trucks, and it takes 2 hours to charge, someone needs to be there to keep track of them, unless you expe…

You don’t need a “charging station,” you just need an outlet. And you don’t need someone to “charge” them except the person who parked it. It charges at night after use. An exterior outlet costs almost nothing compared to the fully burdened cost of a parking space.

Of all the “very real” problems with electric vehicles, you picked two or three things that aren’t.

Re: Why the new USPS mail trucks look so weird

#170

Post by raldi »

zelon88 wrote: post #163
raldi wrote: post #158

Earlier quoted context omitted.

NYPD uses Impalas

That's slightly better, but they have used Crown Victoria's in the past. Kind of hard to continue using them when they've long been discontinued. But still, why the Impala? Why an 18mpg, FWD, 300hp transversely mounted engine design? Why kneecap yourself with a shit car? When do they use the full potential of the Impala, or the Crown Vic, or the EcoBoost Explorer? Even in the 90s and 2000s. Why not solicit contracts…

They've been using Impalas since at least 1996, but I guess they have a mixed fleet that also includes some Crown Vics:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Police_vehicles_in_New_York_Ci...

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