Why the new USPS mail trucks look so weird • Hacker News Board

Re: Why the new USPS mail trucks look so weird

#121

Post by [deleted] » Tue, Mar 16, 2021, 2:40 AM UTC

fingerlocks wrote: post #50

diggan wrote: post #10

Why have a specific design anyways? In both Sweden and Spain, the cars carrying mail is typically just a normal half-truck (not sure about the correct name) with the post office branding. Here are two examples: https://c8.alamy.com/comp/DA5TW8/yellow-correos-spanish-post... - https://st2.depositphotos.com/3982569/5739/i/950/depositphot... Seems to work fine. Packages gets carried in bigger trucks, but still just busi…

The United States is a vast, sprawling area with nearly every conceivable type of geography. The road conditions and residential density covers all possible ranges. The truck is designed for the worst case scenario allowable while minimizing drivers danger. Also, the USPS uses panel vans in denser areas. My neighborhood in Seattle has the mail delivered in a Sprinter/ProMaster/Transit thing, but weird trucks are ubiq…

[deleted]

Re: Why the new USPS mail trucks look so weird

#122

Post by jonah » Tue, Mar 16, 2021, 2:42 AM UTC

tduberne wrote: post #79

diggan wrote: post #10

Why have a specific design anyways? In both Sweden and Spain, the cars carrying mail is typically just a normal half-truck (not sure about the correct name) with the post office branding. Here are two examples: https://c8.alamy.com/comp/DA5TW8/yellow-correos-spanish-post... - https://st2.depositphotos.com/3982569/5739/i/950/depositphot... Seems to work fine. Packages gets carried in bigger trucks, but still just busi…

One requirement seems to be that the driver can access the mailbox without leaving the vehicle. So the equivalent in Europe would be the bikes (or, nowadays, electric scooters) that are used to deliver mail. They are typically specifically designed for the postal service. So it might be less different than it seems at first.

Where I grew up, the rural mail carriers drove their own vehicles. Ours drove his (Subaru wagon I think) from the middle of the bench seat - gas and brake with the left foot.

Some others in the area imported RHD vehicles.

Re: Why the new USPS mail trucks look so weird

#123

Post by pixl97 » Tue, Mar 16, 2021, 2:42 AM UTC

maxerickson wrote: post #97

throwaway0a5e wrote: post #87

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Your rural mail carrier selected the vehicle based on a known defined mailbox height.

Yes, that was my point, they were able to buy an (apparently) suitable vehicle 'off the shelf'.

And those jeeps had generally terrible visibility. You're making a lot of statements with little to no data, nor even research on to why they would want to improve.

Re: Why the new USPS mail trucks look so weird

#124

Post by Groxx » Tue, Mar 16, 2021, 2:44 AM UTC

kumarvvr wrote: post #89

Why are looks so important anyways? Clearly USPS is trying to look after its employees, trying to ensure they have the best vehicle, suited for their work with minimal hassle.

That's a stupendously low step-in height. Probably makes a huge impact in reducing RSI and other repeated-motion injuries.

More weirdness please. Looks great to me.

Re: Why the new USPS mail trucks look so weird

#125

Post by analog31 » Tue, Mar 16, 2021, 2:46 AM UTC

gambiting wrote: post #32

lisper wrote: post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

TFA actually explains all this pretty well: "The requirements dictated the step-in height, the glass height (including the low side glass), the vision angles, the internal height, and the maximum roof height," wrote Kahn in a tweet. "That was all locked in." Other constraints included the ability to reach the mailbox while in the seated position, and the requirement to see the ground around the vehicle...

The true marvel about all of this is how somehow every other country in the world manages just fine without these requirements.

Every country's postal system is a system with a lot of interacting parts. You change one part, and it affects the others. Our postal system makes extensive use of mail delivered by vehicles directly to mailboxes that are located at the curb, on streets that are relatively dangerous for people. [0]

[0] I couldn't quickly find any believable stats, but I think it's a reasonable guess to start with traffic deaths in general, for which there are published numbers.

Re: Why the new USPS mail trucks look so weird

#126

Post by elihu » Tue, Mar 16, 2021, 2:46 AM UTC

Presumably the government gets a price discount for ordering in massive bulk. Any idea what the price per unit is for either the gas or electric version?

The press release kind of vaguely implies a price range:

https://about.usps.com/newsroom/national-releases/2021/0223-...

> Under the contract’s initial $482 million investment, Oshkosh Defense will finalize the production design of the Next Generation Delivery Vehicle (NGDV) — a purpose-built, right-hand-drive vehicle for mail and package delivery — and will assemble 50,000 to 165,000 of them over 10 years. The vehicles will be equipped with either fuel-efficient internal combustion engines or battery electric powertrains and can be retrofitted to keep pace with advances in electric vehicle technologies. The initial investment includes plant tooling and build-out for the U.S. manufacturing facility where final vehicle assembly will occur.

> The contract is the first part of a multi-billion-dollar 10-year effort to replace the Postal Service’s delivery vehicle fleet, one of the world’s largest.

If "multi-billion-dollar" means about two billion and they make 50,000 vans, that's $40,000 per van. If they make 165,000 for 2 billion, that's about $12,100 per van. I guess that range sounds sort of reasonable.

Re: Why the new USPS mail trucks look so weird

#127

Post by brod » Tue, Mar 16, 2021, 2:47 AM UTC

abnercoimbre wrote: post #104

skynetv2 wrote: post #99

This article basically is - "The USPS trucks look that way because USPS design says they have to". It would have helped to explain why USPS has these specific requirements - safety, comfort and efficiency.

Are those the actual specific requirements? Would love to read more on the subject but it's hard to find authoritative sources.

Most government tenders for a contract are available online, I'm from Australia so not entirely sure what I'm looking at but this[1] appears to be some sort of reference to the tender, although there is limited information provided.

[1] https://beta.sam.gov/opp/588f5ed4becd4fc4abf6df8e7a918184/vi...

Edit: This[2] seems to be a notice of the contract being awarded to Oshkosh for exactly $481,877,752.00 USD.

[2] https://beta.sam.gov/opp/1e56c386808444d886124fc1927f4eb0/vi...

Re: Why the new USPS mail trucks look so weird

#128

Post by Nition » Tue, Mar 16, 2021, 2:48 AM UTC

teruakohatu wrote: post #3

"Oddly-shaped mail trucks seem to be a staple of Americana." As a non-American I have always found this amusing. Here in New Zealand Post was until a few years ago delivered by bicycle in cities (SUVs or vans in rural areas). They have since moved towards small electric vehicles called Paxster. Basically large four wheel scooters that can ride on both the road and pavement. https://jobs.nzpost.co.nz/paxster

I'm also in New Zealand. What I found really interesting about this article was that apparently US mailboxes are positioned right by the road so that the mail carrier can directly drop the mail in from a vehicle. Clever! Although it must make it more likely to get your mailbox knocked over by a car.

Here the mailbox is usually on the other side of a grass verge and footpath (sidewalk), too far to reach from the road.

Re: Why the new USPS mail trucks look so weird

#129

Post by dangerbird2 » Tue, Mar 16, 2021, 2:49 AM UTC

chrisseaton wrote: post #37

marcinzm wrote: post #31

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The same reason Amazon runs its own shipping network instead of relying on UPS or Fedex. At a certain scale it is cheaper to get a custom option that specifically fits your needs rather than retro-fitting something else. The USPS bought 100,000 of the last truck and, for example, one of the requirements was long service life. Building a truck you can use for 30 years is probably much cheaper than buying multiple lowe…

> The same reason Amazon runs its own shipping network instead of relying on UPS or Fedex. Amazon use off-the-shelf vehicles though. > one of the requirements was long service life I wonder how they require that. Does the manufacturer have to warranty them all for 30 years? That's extraordinary!

Mail trucks have pretty drastically different requirements than a parcel delivery truck. Mail trucks are designed for a right sided driver and lots of stops on every block, so good visibility to avoid crashing into oncoming traffic or hitting pedestrians in the front is obligatory. Amazon, UPS, and friends have much more infrequent stops. USPS also needs vehicles that can last for decades with much lower maintenance costs than commercial competitors. With the Biden Admin's government fleet electrification plan, they'll also need to be easily built or converted to battery-powered.

Re: Why the new USPS mail trucks look so weird

#130

Post by maxerickson » Tue, Mar 16, 2021, 2:49 AM UTC

pixl97 wrote: post #123

maxerickson wrote: post #97

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes, that was my point, they were able to buy an (apparently) suitable vehicle 'off the shelf'.

And those jeeps had generally terrible visibility. You're making a lot of statements with little to no data, nor even research on to why they would want to improve.

I disagree.

I made 1 statement saying that requirements aren't explanations, 1 statement that I observed a rural carrier use a jeep for years, and then a statement that jeeps are in fact commercially available.

I would certainly expect a jeep with a mirror bolted on the traffic side to have better rear and side visibility than something with no glass in the back, so go ahead and hang your hat on visibility if you want.