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Why are so many successful founding CEOs software engineers?

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Re: Why are so many successful founding CEOs software engineers?

#321

Post by EvilEy3 »

asdfman123 wrote: post #255
isamuel wrote: post #109

All of the people on this list are "software engineers" in the sense that they have some rudimentary education in the field. Almost none of them could get a job as a software engineer at their own company, if they had to, because they would be completely unqualified. And I'm not looking down my nose at anyone: I have an undergraduate degree in CS, but I got it 16 years ago and then went to law school, and there is no…

I'm not an expert, but my feeling is you'd need just three things to get back into Big Tech: 1) At least a year or two of experience at another programming job, 2) MONTHS of time studying whiteboarding, and maybe 3) A few good referrals. I know, because I'm 34 and I have 9 years of enterprise experience. I'm trying to get into Big Tech right now (I've interviewed with Google and Amazon and I'm about to do Facebook).…

> rich people can afford to study for months for free. Poor people can't.

Oh boy, here we go again.

Smart people can afford not to study for months. 'Stupid' people can't. Shall I, as a 'stupid' person complain about that?

Re: Why are so many successful founding CEOs software engineers?

#322

Post by EvilEy3 »

asdfman123 wrote: post #297
aeoleonn wrote: post #284

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I agree with ya. But this statement: >" it should be easier " applies to literally everything in existence :P challenges are good-- they result in growth.

I a Wired article about a team of poor Latino high schoolers who won a prestigious submersible competition. Brilliant kids. I don't think any of them became engineers. One of them ran a catering business, for instance, which is more in line with his background. Is that growth?

> I don't think any of them became engineers.

What makes you think that they should become engineers? Just because they're brilliant they're supposed to work in engineering?

Re: Why are so many successful founding CEOs software engineers?

#323

Post by EvilEy3 »

gamblor956 wrote: post #286
jbroson wrote: post #258

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What? You honestly think the Stanford PhDs who created Google couldn't get hired as basic SWEs? Seriously? I mean if true that says a lot more about the SWE interviews than it does about Stanford PhDs. I mean there are Yale JDs that fail the bar exam but no one would claim that the average Yale JD couldn't get hired as a Big Law associate or judicial clerk.

Google famously refused to hire Max Howell, the programmer who wrote Homebrew, which (based on Google's own statements) was used by 90% of Google's engineers at the time of his interview, because he couldn't invert a binary tree in the specific (but unstated) manner that the interviewer wanted. So it's definitely possible, indeed likely, that Serge and Larry wouldn't get hired at the Google of today. The "average Yal…

You're forgetting less famous reply of Max Howell on quora: https://www.quora.com/Whats-the-logic-behind-Google-rejectin....

Re: Why are so many successful founding CEOs software engineers?

#324

Post by EvilEy3 »

gamblor956 wrote: post #305
dmoy wrote: post #304

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't know about the rest of that, but > Homebrew, which was used by 90% of Google's engineers at the time of his interview This is definitely not true.

I don't know how true the % is, but that is what Howell claimed and several Google employees verified that his software was used by significant parts of Google's engineering staff. At any rate, the point is that a guy who used software used by a large portion of Google's engineering team because it was superior to the in-house solution could not get a job at Google because he failed to answer a programming question i…

> At any rate, the point is that a guy who used software used by a large portion of Google's engineering team because it was superior to the in-house solution

Do you seriously believe that they couldn't come up with something better than mediocre package manager?

Re: Why are so many successful founding CEOs software engineers?

#325

Post by EvilEy3 »

dcolkitt wrote: post #175
danielmarkbruce wrote: post #149

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You are assuming a lot. Many stanford phd's fail the google interview. I'd guess larry, sergey and zuckerberg had a pretty good chance of failing their own swe interviews...

The dirty truth is that most whiteboard industries are heavily loaded on raw cognitive ability. Sure, it’s ostensibly about data structures, but what it’s really about is fluid intelligence. Gates, Zuckerberg, Larry, Sergey and Bezos all have extremely high intelligence, and would most likely pass with ease.

Sorry, but that's offensive to stupid people.

Re: Why are so many successful founding CEOs software engineers?

#326

Post by EvilEy3 »

foepys wrote: post #208
whalesalad wrote: post #204

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you think these guys couldn’t get a job as a software engineer you are deluding yourself.

At FAANG? Maybe, maybe not. Definitely not without studying first. Here is the example of Max Howell who wrote Homebrew and couldn't get past the whiteboard interview at Google. https://twitter.com/mxcl/status/608682016205344768

Who is Max Howell again? Author of Homebrew and... what?

Re: Why are so many successful founding CEOs software engineers?

#327

Post by dontreact »

gamblor956 wrote: post #305
dmoy wrote: post #304

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't know about the rest of that, but > Homebrew, which was used by 90% of Google's engineers at the time of his interview This is definitely not true.

I don't know how true the % is, but that is what Howell claimed and several Google employees verified that his software was used by significant parts of Google's engineering staff. At any rate, the point is that a guy who used software used by a large portion of Google's engineering team because it was superior to the in-house solution could not get a job at Google because he failed to answer a programming question i…

People at Google use blaze. I've never heard of anyone using homebrew. I think number is quite near 0%.

It's hard to put everything in a build system like blaze but if you do, I think the outcome is superior to Homebrew.

Re: Why are so many successful founding CEOs software engineers?

#328

Post by replyifuagree »

dogma1138 wrote: post #50
replyifuagree wrote: post #48

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Coding really does teach something that I've never learned anyplace else. I've also done just about zero in the arts, so maybe there are some parallels there, I should try music or painting someday to see. I know for sure that math and engineering classes didn't teach me what coding taught me.

And what would that be exactly?

To iterate different embodiments of ideas with people until something gets traction. I do think that is actually something the arts teachers, but I've done none of the arts so no personal experience to compare.

Re: Why are so many successful founding CEOs software engineers?

#329

Post by stevegalla »

dghlsakjg wrote: post #309
bluefirebrand wrote: post #236

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> There are NO CREDENTIALS needed to be called a "software engineer" In the USA, maybe that's true. In Canada, for instance, there are legal requirements to being able to call yourself an Engineer. That's why "Software Developer" is used.

I’m a ‘Software engineer’ in Canada. Have been at multiple companies. Do not have an engineering degree... Professional Engineer is a protected title in Canada. Is that what you’re thinking of?

> I’m a ‘Software engineer’ in Canada. Have been at multiple companies. Do not have an engineering degree...

I'm mixing between EGBC (Engineers and Geoscientists British Columbia) and PEO (Professional Engineers Ontario) in links below, but feel free to contact your local engineering licensing body to check if your titles hold up. There is a bunch of weird language through out. Who knows, you may qualify.

From [1]: "In British Columbia, anyone who practises software engineering, or who uses the title “software engineer” (or a similar title that implies that they are a software engineer, like “firmware engineer”, “mobile app engineer”, etc.), must be registered with Engineers and Geoscientists BC."

There is a lot more in [1] including, "Not all software development constitutes software engineering." and "... many individuals who develop software probably do not actually engage in software engineering..."

Someone linked to a Microsoft job using the word engineer in Canada, which seems strange since Microsoft already learned about the protected use of the word "engineer" in Canada in 2001 [2].

Professional Engineers Ontario says, "On July 25, 2002 Microsoft Canada announced that they will continue to use the term 'engineer' as part of the Microsoft Certified Systems Engineer (MCSE) designation."[3]

> Professional Engineer is a protected title in Canada. Is that what you’re thinking of?

I think "engineer" is protected too. I think job titles that contain "engineer" can only be used by those who are registered professional engineers.

From [4], "Can someone call themselves an Engineer/Professional Engineer or P.Eng if they don’t have a licence?

The term Engineer/Professional Engineer/P.Eng. can only be used by those that have been granted a licence by PEO, under the authority of the Professional Engineers Act. The title “Engineer” is restricted to Ontario licence holders under s. 40(2)(a.1) of the Act."

[1] https://www.egbc.ca/Registration/Individual-Registrants/How-...

[2] https://www.canadianconsultingengineer.com/engineering/micro...

[3] https://www.peo.on.ca/public-protection/complaints-and-illeg...

[4] https://www.peo.on.ca/public-protection/complaints-and-illeg...

Re: Why are so many successful founding CEOs software engineers?

#330

Post by gamechangr »

asdfman123 wrote: post #255
isamuel wrote: post #109

All of the people on this list are "software engineers" in the sense that they have some rudimentary education in the field. Almost none of them could get a job as a software engineer at their own company, if they had to, because they would be completely unqualified. And I'm not looking down my nose at anyone: I have an undergraduate degree in CS, but I got it 16 years ago and then went to law school, and there is no…

I'm not an expert, but my feeling is you'd need just three things to get back into Big Tech: 1) At least a year or two of experience at another programming job, 2) MONTHS of time studying whiteboarding, and maybe 3) A few good referrals. I know, because I'm 34 and I have 9 years of enterprise experience. I'm trying to get into Big Tech right now (I've interviewed with Google and Amazon and I'm about to do Facebook).…

What's the pay range of the jobs "THROWING job offers" vs the 400k Big Tech.?
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