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Is Philosophy an Art?

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Re: Is Philosophy an Art?

#131

Post by GoblinSlayer »

ogurechny wrote: post #81
zozbot234 wrote: post #4

Relevant: http://paulgraham.com/philosophy.html

What a dull essay by someone who studied lots of things about philosophy, but never practiced any. Which is, by the way, simply thinking about thinking. Complex terms and systems are strictly secondary, thinking is the thing. Questioning positions, wondering whether they are right or wrong for real — not because it's some logical exercise, what is true and what is false in principle, how do thoughts form and interact…

I don't think they have a different option as universalism falls out of fashion.

Re: Is Philosophy an Art?

#132

Post by LudwigNagasena »

I always find such discussions unsatisfying and unproductive. People take a vague and ill-defined concept that changed its meaning over time and treat it as something homogenous, bonus points if they do it twice in the same question (it talks about philosophy and art).

“What if we treat philosophy as art”? Well, what if we treat it as a corpus of thoughts related only through immediate relevancy and no strict boundaries otherwise? Funny that they mention Wittgenstein but don’t bring up his idea of family resemblance ( https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Family_resemblance ).

Re: Is Philosophy an Art?

#133

Post by scotty79 »

Yes. Art is every human product that doesn't have to function in any way, and despite that it still has potential to be appreciated by some people. Philosophy fits.

Re: Is Philosophy an Art?

#134

Post by neonological »

namero999 wrote: post #108
neonological wrote: post #78

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's the problem with philosophy. It's archaic. It doesn't self improve. Christianity and Muslims have been around almost as long as philosophy. It doesn't make their opposing views automatically valid nor does it eliminate the randomness of some arbitrary beliefs in each respective religion (why is jesus named jesus, for example).

Feel free to consciously ignore the developments of the last few thousands year, and to hold the immature view that religious myths have to be taken literally. This sounds like something my teenage nephew would say, so I have lost interest in arguing with you on these topics.

This is a personal attack which is against the rules here.

I think you took my words as an attack because you’ve been personally invested in philosophy for so long defending it like a cultist who refuses to take reality at face value. Greek mythology and Chinese mythology and most mythology were invented in the past as literal explanations of reality.

The penchant today to not take things literally is an excuse. Our understanding of reality has changed and the archaic explanations of of the past no longer work yet blind loyalty still binds you to religious explanations. This is why people twist the explanations and say to not take them literally. Were people in the past so stupid that they had to wrap every explanation in the symbolism of a fantastical myth? Doubtful. This is more likely the excuse made by someone who cannot reconcile rationality with there loyalty to a religion.

I don’t think you actually lost interest. I think you just know you lost.

Re: Is Philosophy an Art?

#135

Post by neonological »

ThomPete wrote: post #122
neonological wrote: post #91

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Asking the right questions doesn't negate the fact that there's a category error here. Either way, "asking questions" is not what people classically think of when they talk about philosophy.

There is no category error. Again asking the right questions teaches you how to think about the world. The fact that people have misconception of what philosophy is doesn't change anything.

The category error exists whether or not the questions are right or wrong, it is irrelevant to my point.

Let me put it this way. Part of philosophy is the Milesian school of thought. The idea that everything is made of water. A completely ludicrous idea that I would argue makes the practitioner ask the wrong questions as we now know things are made of complex particles.

Does this have anything to do with the category error I’m describing? No. Science and the Milesian school of thought simply don’t belong together regardless of what right or wrong questions your favorite field makes you ask.

Re: Is Philosophy an Art?

#136

Post by MaxBarraclough »

jvvw wrote: post #114
MaxBarraclough wrote: post #109

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> No one would claim to be an expert of a philosopher without reading and studying his book and articles. But, if the substance was more important than the form, it should not matter. One can master Gauss' mathematics or Einstein's physics without reading the original works. I don't think that's fair. I'd generally expect an expert (a professor, say) to be familiar with the original work regardless of whether it's ph…

I doubt there are many professors of mathematics who have read the original Gauss! Certainly in my field of mathematics, nobody ever talked about reading older work in its original. It feels like something only of interest for historians. Mathematical notation has improved immensely and the important ideas have been clarified and refined.

Interesting, so even mathematics isn't immune from 'translations' from the original work, as in philosophy.

Re: Is Philosophy an Art?

#138

Post by ulisesrmzroche »

Hitton wrote: post #111
tus89 wrote: post #99

A similar question could be asked -- is mathematics a science?

No. Mathematics is an elaborate game with surprising ability to model universe.

Or a language to describe reality. There’s a whole philosophy of mathematics. Fascinating stuff

Re: Is Philosophy an Art?

#139

Post by ulisesrmzroche »

There’s a philosophy of science and a philosophy of art, like there’s philosophy of physics and math. I think it’s more about the practice of asking the hard questions, in whatever field they may be.

I think they’re equating philosophy and psychology

Re: Is Philosophy an Art?

#140

Post by routerl »

GoblinSlayer wrote: post #130
routerl wrote: post #47

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Few would call mathematics an art, though, or would they? I'm not sure. Many would, precisely because it is not empirical, as indicated by the fact that mathematics departments are often in Arts faculties. As Sir Michael Atiyah put it: "The art in good mathematics, and mathematics is an art, is to identify and tackle problems that are both interesting and solvable." Mathematicians will often wax philosophical when…

Isn't induction empirical?

"Mathematical induction" is a deductive proof technique with an unfortunately confusing name, but unrelated to the inductive reasoning of empirical science.
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