How soon until someone makes MOVA a real language
We created a fake language to root out resume liars
761–770 of 771 posts
Re: We created a fake language to root out resume liars
#762Earlier quoted context omitted.
Lots of new languages that arose in reflex to the "stack complexity" of Java ... eventually achieved the same stack complexity with a totally different set of framework/tool names. Ruby/Rails in particular became this. Javascript rocketed to this complexity level, with the added chaos of seemingly reinventing the entire toolchains every 2 years.
yeah, i never understood that part. People wanting to use javascript on the backend, but not having any of those tools. They exist for a reason, and it's not to make things more complicated.
IMO the tools that have been created to fill the gaps seem to be poor imitations of dotNet, rails, and java frameworks.
The testing framework I saw in a React app were almost straight from java, but somehow (despite JS being more flexible and script) MUCH uglier.
Re: We created a fake language to root out resume liars
#763Earlier quoted context omitted.
It's not cultural. I think the agencies are trying to put in every single keyword and "skill" to get past algorithmic filters and also make sure non-technical managers see the words they are looking for. At a past role we were looking for a contract Tableau person and one of the agencies that was approved by HR sent me 20+ resumes. All of them were 5+ pages, with things like "Made a Bar Chart in Tableau," "Made a Pie…
I'm not sure entirely that it's not cultural, though I'd love for someone to confirm. I interviewed with a recruiter for jobs in Australia, and they asked that I make my resume into a novel.
Huh. How long ago was this? Genuinely curious (pessimism and cynicism in cheek, if you will) if this is a good idea for me to do if I'm applying somewhere not deeply technical (eg, FAANG).
Re: We created a fake language to root out resume liars
#764Earlier quoted context omitted.
I would have immediately sorted your posting into a bin with "doesn't know enough about the tech they are hiring for". I saw many resumes at the time that had impossible requirements like that. Unlike you were say James Gosling. And I know you weren't hiring him with a post like this.
Well, you would have made an assumption without knowing facts or trying to ask questions.
This is exactly what you are doing. You a hiring manager are not special and allowed to opt out of human decency and professional conduct. In fact you need to do more of both.
As a candidate I spend about the same amount of time on reviewing job positions as you do on resumes. When I'm looking for candidates I don't interview every resume I see, it's like 50:1 on contacts. As a candidate it's the same.
I currently filter out any company who doesn't have pricing on the website for instance. I don't want to work for a purely enterprise sales based company as I hate working with them as a customer.
In your case at best I might say your position has impossible requirements to be helpful. But I did that in the early days if java and was given many excuses. None of them led to interviews and I don't think any of them changed their postings.
Tldr, you're just convincing me more that I wouldn't want to work with you.
Re: We created a fake language to root out resume liars
#765Re: We created a fake language to root out resume liars
#766Earlier quoted context omitted.
I'm not sure entirely that it's not cultural, though I'd love for someone to confirm. I interviewed with a recruiter for jobs in Australia, and they asked that I make my resume into a novel.
Huh. How long ago was this? Genuinely curious (pessimism and cynicism in cheek, if you will) if this is a good idea for me to do if I'm applying somewhere not deeply technical (eg, FAANG).
To make you're resume a novel? In NA? Probably not a good idea. This was a decade ago
Re: We created a fake language to root out resume liars
#767Earlier quoted context omitted.
Huh. How long ago was this? Genuinely curious (pessimism and cynicism in cheek, if you will) if this is a good idea for me to do if I'm applying somewhere not deeply technical (eg, FAANG).
To make you're resume a novel? In NA? Probably not a good idea. This was a decade ago
Ah, thanks.
I'm actually in Australia myself. Guess my choice of reference for "nearby offices of competent tech companies" had unintended geographic connotations, woops
Re: We created a fake language to root out resume liars
#768Earlier quoted context omitted.
I totally agree with you on the general dynamics, but would add govt regulation as another potential balancer. The govt can require things like breaks, overtime pay, and safety conditions that would otherwise have to be negotiated (often unsuccessfully) by employees. Also, providing a stronger economic safety net gives employees more bargaining power, since it decreases their downside risk.
Small note on this: Companies, especially large companies, spend an exorbant amount of money on lobbying lawmakers. That lobbying money works hard to limit workers' (and consumers', and competitions') rights. And ultimately, it's not the government alone which got us breaks, overtime pay, and safety conditions - it was the unions using their dues to push the government for those things.
I almost mentioned regulations but didn't for this reason. It would be nice if the government actually put individuals above corporations; but at least here in the USA the situation has been clear for decades... or forever?
Re: We created a fake language to root out resume liars
#769Earlier quoted context omitted.
The recruiter did good work here. I suspect this was a screw up in internal HR. The external recruiter has absolutely no incentive to send you for an interview you will bomb out of.
Nonsense told to me repeatedly by recruiters over the years: - (your point) no incentive to send you for an interview if not a good fit. - "I make more money if you make your money" often said to spin the "what is your salary requirement" question Most recruiters work for an agency. Agencies have accounts with businesses. The account is central. You are in no position whatsoever to make determination as to what incen…
> You are in no position whatsoever to make determination as to what incentives drive the recruiter's business.
My god, how patronising.
My view on his comes from speaking to several hundred recruiters and owners of recruitment agencies as part of research for a product targeted at those businesses.
I also have close friends who worked or have worked in that industry and we have had very frank conversations about what their incentives are.
Maybe they all lied to me, but none of them wanted to put anybody forward for an interview who would make them look incompetent.
Their ideal flow for a deal was as follows:
- Receive brief from client.
- Find about 3 good candidates and get them booked for interviews. Could be more or less, depending on the role.
- Interviews take place and the client considers all candidates to be at least somewhat suitable, but decides to pull the trigger on one of them.
- The recruiter manages the candidate's salary expectations within a range based on their experience of placing other people in similar positions so that the deal gets done. Generally this means that they will try to get it closed within one or at most two offer-counteroffer loops. That may mean disabusing candidates of unrealistic salary expectations. It may also mean convincing clients to increase the previously agreed salary range to accommodate a candidate who is significantly more attractive than the average.
- The recruiter receives a placement fee equivalent to a percentage of yearly salary in most cases.
This does not mean that individual recruiters or agencies may not have other incentives. I know that sometimes interviews of external candidates are a procedural requirement and are conducted just for show so that a preferred internal candidate may be offered the position.
But in general, I am quite sure that the above is a reasonably accurate account of what the usual incentives are.
Re: We created a fake language to root out resume liars
#770Earlier quoted context omitted.
How did you find your recruiter? Do you mind sharing the rough process that unfolded? Not asking for you to share them, just wondering if there are any takeaways you would have for others on the process.
No prob. He actually had a position advertised on roberthalf.ca. The position seemed right up my alley. The directions part explained he was the recruiter for this position, and to reach out on LinkedIn first. So, I did that. I guess it was a pre-screen to see if I read directions. He accepted the request but didn't respond to my message for a few days. I'm really not good at self promotion, but I also really wanted…
Just noticed your reply. Thank you!